LMS 27T Iron Ore Tippler - diagram D2153

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6C
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LMS 27T Iron Ore Tippler - diagram D2153

Postby 6C » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:42 am

Looking to model this wagon - using a hotch-potch of parts and ingredients, that I already have to hand...

Trying to find a photograph of it, in the period of the lates 1950s under British Railways - with the questions needing answering being:

1) BR Wagon Grey as the main body colour ?
2) Were end-door bodyside stripes present ? despite the door being out of use ?
3) I have heard that the bodyside doors wore the v symbol indicating that bottom doors were present too ?

Photographs of the prototype have been limited to a BR 1970s tangential view on Paul Bartletts site, which does not show the whole wagon side....

I would be grateful - if anyone can point to any photo references - in print or elsewhere...

Thanks
Pete
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Re: LMS 27T Iron Ore Tippler - diagram D2153

Postby Pennine MC » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:49 am

6C wrote:
I would be grateful - if anyone can point to any photo references - in print or elsewhere...


So would I, there's not much around on these at all. Although turned out in bauxite (like the contemporary 16 tonners on which they were based), I'm confident they'd have got grey on repaints. The official photo I've seen of a new one has the full range of stripes, so I'd expect them to carry over to the grey.

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Re: LMS 27T Iron Ore Tippler - diagram D2153

Postby glencairn » Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:18 am

Could 'An Illustrated History Of LMS wagons by R J Essery volume 1 help? I haven't read it but information of the wagon is in there.

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Re: LMS 27T Iron Ore Tippler - diagram D2153

Postby Ex-Pat » Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:08 pm

Anything to do with coaches then it's Yahoo BRCS Group - anything to do with wagons then a search on "Paul Bartlett" may well produce the required result.

Edit: Sorry I didn't see the mention of Paul Bartlett in your original post!

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stuartp
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Re: LMS 27T Iron Ore Tippler - diagram D2153

Postby stuartp » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:51 pm

Essery Vol 1 has a weight diagram and the statement "No photographs are known to exist". It's a low sided wagon on a 12 foot chassis, diagram shows "GWR brake" and a sheet rail fitted. Two drop doors each side but no indication of end doors.

Apart from the end doors (lack of) and sheet rail it looks more like a cut down 21 ton coal wagon than anything else. It certainly looks nothing at all like this one - http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsmineral/e5254eb6e
Portwilliam - Southwest Scotland in the 1960s, in OO - http://stuart1968.wordpress.com/

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Re: LMS 27T Iron Ore Tippler - diagram D2153

Postby 6C » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:21 am

Thanks for all the answers - yep - have the Essery book - there is some confusion as the diagram and text seems to be transposed with the wagon above it on that page. :?

Further research has come up with the assertion, that it was a LMS D2134 16T mineral - with the doors all welded shut - to allow it to work as a tippler - heavier axlebox journals, seem to be the only other modification - to cope with the extra 11 tons.
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Re: LMS 27T Iron Ore Tippler - diagram D2153

Postby stuartp » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:00 pm

That would make more sense, thanks.
Portwilliam - Southwest Scotland in the 1960s, in OO - http://stuart1968.wordpress.com/

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6C
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Re: LMS 27T Iron Ore Tippler - diagram D2153

Postby 6C » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:21 pm

Trying to find pictures of them in my photo based books - as incidentals in the make-up of the train - initial probing seem to show (in the period of @1960) - grey livery and the door stripe being present - curiouser and curiouser.....
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Re: LMS 27T Iron Ore Tippler - diagram D2153

Postby Pennine MC » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:02 pm

Thinking on Pete, I think I do have a mag article showing one in the mid '60s - probs be next week though before I have chance to dig it out.

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Re: LMS 27T Iron Ore Tippler - diagram D2153

Postby 6C » Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:34 pm

Thank you sir - that would be much appreciated.. 8)
Pete

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Re: LMS 27T Iron Ore Tippler - diagram D2153

Postby 6C » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:37 pm

Have found a copy of Modellers Backtrack vol1 no4 - which has what is apparently the only usuable reference photo of the D2153 wagon - and pretty much answers all the questions and queries - let me know if you need any info from it....

The accompanying text also gives very useful backup information - on items such as livery dates (the photo is from 1949) and shows the wagon in LMS bauxite - but with BR M62xxxx numbering - the text mentions that this would have changed by 1954 to standard BR unfitted grey...which helps me as i'm am working on a 1959 version.
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Re: LMS 27T Iron Ore Tippler - diagram D2153

Postby Pennine MC » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:22 pm

6C wrote:Have found a copy of Modellers Backtrack vol1 no4 - which has what is apparently the only usuable reference photo of the D2153 wagon -


Got that, thanks - virtually read the print off it :mrgreen: I'll try and dig that other pic out tomorrow Pete.

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Re: LMS 27T Iron Ore Tippler - diagram D2153

Postby 6C » Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:34 pm

Love to see that PennineMC - the perceived wisdom - is that there is no clear photograph of any of the 400 wagons built, in service.
I have seen a number of photos where the odd D2153 can be discerned within the make-up of a tippler train - but none of them can provide numbering or definitive livery details.

I am getting together a potted history for a project that I need it for, using the new, improved Dapol 16 Ton mineral (4F-030-003) as the basis for conversion into the D2153 tippler - whereby the main job is adding a side-door spring for the (non-opening/welded shut!!) side door on both sides...
Pete

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Re: LMS 27T Iron Ore Tippler - diagram D2153

Postby 6C » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:20 am

Right - have finished this mini-project.

Used the aforementioned Dapol wagon - as it has improved body and underframe detail which match roughly the original wagon.

Basically now looks like a D2134 or later BR Dia 108 16t mineral externally - with an enlarged black patch for the larger '27T - Iron Ore - M622128' legend, achieved by using a Modelmaster black blanking decal - and the CCT Iron Ore Decal sheet - which contains one number for such a wagon, amongst the BR versions that complete the sheet.

A very simple and quick conversion, the only time take was to allow the transfer to set really...
Pete

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Re: LMS 27T Iron Ore Tippler - diagram D2153

Postby Dad-1 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:31 am

Hi 6c,

Any chance of a photo ?
I love my freight wagons and although mostly GW any BR period
are of great interest to me.

Geoff T.
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viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a


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