WCML Franchise

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senorsenales
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Re: WCML Franchise

Postby senorsenales » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:56 pm

TK421 wrote:At the end of the day worrying about changing condidtions in a promotion I would regard as 'little to worry about' as you'd have a job and a good one in today's climate.


Depends on what you call changing conditions in a promotion. If you already have excellent conditions with a pay structure that is £8k - £10k better than somebody doing the same job are you going to go for promotion, change jobs and take a pay drop - I don't think so. As part of the TUPE conditions they had to make allowances for the transfer of the office to another more than thirty miles away. That was all taken into account and remains to this day as far as a I know.

Personally I took the money and left. I used to able to travel to work by train regardless of shift and in about thirty minutes. The new arrangements was either more than an hour and a half each way by train or a thirty plus miles trip each way across country by car. They were not prepared to compensate me for the inconvenience. In another case they paid for a taxi to collect a collegaue from home and take him to work. It was still going on some years later because he refused to go for promotion knowing he would be giving that little perk up which was worth a lot of money to him, and a saving of time as he genuinely didn't own a car. A taxi to go thirty miles on a Saturday or a Sunday would be a small fortune if he had to pay for it himself, besides which a man sitting in the next seat and on a FGW contract doing an identical job was way below what he was earning, and none of the trimmings ie no overtime requirement, no working on days off except at short notice and he would get that time back later. I am afraid we were very lucky and got treated well , our terms and conditions were second to none, and anything else was very second class.

Lots to think about there but depends on a lot of factors. I took the money at the age of fifty seven went to work for Network Rail on seven hours a week less and some hundred of pounds better off monthly because of the pay structure. Just be careful what you are giving up. The money is important but so are the conditions.

johnco
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Re: WCML Franchise

Postby johnco » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:40 pm

The main thing to come out of it all is that Virgin will have made a packet out of the current franchise, the new lot will also make a packet (whether they deliver the whole package or not) and some fat cat burocrats and bankers will also mint it. The train leasing companies will laugh all the way to the bank.
Politicians don't care as when the franchise comes to an end another party could be in power and it will not be a problem for them.

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TK421
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Re: WCML Franchise

Postby TK421 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:27 am

senorsenales wrote:Depends on what you call changing conditions in a promotion. If you already have excellent conditions with a pay structure that is £8k - £10k better than somebody doing the same job are you going to go for promotion, change jobs and take a pay drop - I don't think so. As part of the TUPE conditions they had to make allowances for the transfer of the office to another more than thirty miles away. That was all taken into account and remains to this day as far as a I know.


As i said I had the same thing at Sainsbury's when I worked there and didn't take promotion or a new contract as I was better off, Sunday's for instance with double time compared to the new time and a half. Companies are always going to look at pay conditions and try to reduce costs wherever they can, usually a good union is the reason they can't always do it. But I think my point is lost, if you get better money for a lower grade job than promotion then stay where you are, if you want promotion accept that conditions will be different, but you'll have a job either way (that was all I was trying to say). I'm not saying changing conditions is right and i'm not First's biggest fan. But it sounds to me like many are talking of ex-BR conditions, I wouldn't mind some of those conditions (free travel would be nice). But it must also be remebered that standard pay was poor, working hours where long and shifts all over the place. Those that went from BR to a TOC got the best of both world's, as by law the better condition of each company must be taken on, i.e BR conditions, TOC wages. But now it's TOC to TOC with simmilar conditions, i'm sure those that never worked for BR don't have the same complaint about conditions because they never had them to lose in the first place.
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b308
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Re: WCML Franchise

Postby b308 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:30 am

TK421 wrote: But it sounds to me like many are talking of ex-BR conditions, I wouldn't mind some of those conditions (free travel would be nice). But it must also be remebered that standard pay was poor, working hours where long and shifts all over the place.


:D We wish! The free travel for life went out when BR ended, we do get concessionary travel, but only at the discretion of the TOC and it can be withdrawn at any time...

Can I just clarify something which seems to causing a lot of discussion and it seems some confussion... When First take over everyone will be transferred across on their existing T&Cs, those T&Cs will be the Virgin contract they signed up to (and the Unions negotiated), I doubt there are any BR contracts around on Virgin these days, especially with on board staff... This is what happened when we transferred to Arriva from Virgin, nothing changes and discussions then take place in the normal way if they want to change anything in the future.



What will happen then is First will gasp with horror at the rates of pay (Virgin paid the best of the TOCs, and yes I know First will be aware of them, I'm just joking!) and they will then look at reducing them...

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TK421
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Re: WCML Franchise

Postby TK421 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:52 am

b308 wrote: :D We wish! The free travel for life went out when BR ended, we do get concessionary travel, but only at the discretion of the TOC and it can be withdrawn at any time...


That's more travel than any non ex-BR employee at NR :wink:

And when first do take on west coast for at least six months first staff can travel from penzance to glasgow and it won't cost a penny. :lol:
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klaatu
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Re: WCML Franchise

Postby klaatu » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:20 pm

There's an e-petition here, requesting that the govt reconsider, if anyone would like to sign it: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/37180

Steve
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b308
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Re: WCML Franchise

Postby b308 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:04 pm

Yes and they are making some incredible claims of how "good" they are... It's all leaving a rather bad taste in the mouth for us at XC considering how quick they were to get rid of us and the stick we took from some of the WC employees (not all though)... First won it fair and square (V's bid wasn't much lower btw!), and if they succeed in a review, which I doubt, i suspect First will just sue which will mean the Lawyers will be the winners and the taxpayers the losers. Time to let go methinks...

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Bufferstop
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Re: WCML Franchise

Postby Bufferstop » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:38 pm

If you've not yet signed the e-petition to have the decision discussed in parliament don't worry - it got the 100,000 trigger level in just 3 days. Doesn't mean the process is halted, but it does now mean that the whole house gets to discuss it, which puts the pressure on the govt.
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wobblybob
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Re: WCML Franchise

Postby wobblybob » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:08 pm

I suspect the number of signatures on the e-petition reflects more the power of branding (Virgin) and celebrity (Richard Branson) than any objective concerns about the awarding of franchises, the quality of service, returns for the taxpayer or the T&Cs of railway staff. :roll:

Bob

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Essex2Visuvesi
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Re: WCML Franchise

Postby Essex2Visuvesi » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:08 am

Looks like the bearded one has got his way! :)

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/west-coast-fr ... scrapped-1
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Peterdn6
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Re: WCML Franchise

Postby Peterdn6 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:36 am

Cede Nullis

b308
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Re: WCML Franchise

Postby b308 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:31 am

And who foots the millions of £s this "review" is going to cost? Us the taxpayers... Face-saving exercise by the Gov... I rather hope First sue 'em... :roll:

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TK421
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Re: WCML Franchise

Postby TK421 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:49 am

What the government should do to save money is combine all existing railway companies into one large organisation and give it a name, something that says national railway company of Great Britain, but what name to give it? hmmm..... :P
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Bufferstop
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Re: WCML Franchise

Postby Bufferstop » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:02 am

So Ricky B is going to get another go without going to court! The DoT like most other departments of government couldn't organise their way out of a wet paper bag! I'm sure that not awarding new franchises to the incumbents is an exercise in showing the public that they actually do something, whether it's useful or not, and no matter what it costs. The only benefits from the procedure seem to go to the company lawyers and the makers of "super sized sticky back plastic".
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poliss
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Re: WCML Franchise

Postby poliss » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:56 pm

They were interviewing Richard Branson about it on Radio 5 Live and his phone line went down. Brilliant! :lol:
Notice that the advert with Bolt is no longer shown. Could be because the speed upgrade didn't happen?


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