WCML Franchise

Discuss real world railway operations in this forum. Find out how to make your model railway as accurate as possible.
User avatar
bike2steam
Posts: 1061
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:46 pm
Location: near Blandford

Re: WCML Franchise

Postby bike2steam » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:34 pm

Branson is an astute, and shrewd businessman, he knew he was being stitched up by what is mainly a bunch of TOC's that are a corrupt cartel with government backing.

User avatar
TK421
Posts: 962
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:42 pm
Location: Faringdon with one R

Re: WCML Franchise

Postby TK421 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:46 pm

b308 wrote:Well the rumors abound that Virgin will lose the franchise to First... In some respects it's a shame as, from my experience of Chiltern and Anglia on a trip from Brum to Colchester today they seem to be the only ones that have spent their money on new stock rather than revamping 20/40 year old stuff which should have been put out to grass long ago... Travelling on Anglia I recon the only thing they'd done to their trains was paint the outside, other than that it was pure BR!

If I worked for Virgin Rail I'd currently be very worried for my job unless I was approaching retirement in which case I'd think that First taking over could be the best thing since sliced bread...


The staff have very little to worry about they are taken on in the transfer, otherwise you'd have a hell of a task getting new drivers. First are said to get the route but it also rumored that the will lose FGW possibly to virgin but dbs have also gone in for this route. But the must likely outcome is for Virgin to get the east coast franchise and do to the east coast what it did to the west.

I just hope first get the west coast on the condition they don't paint their trains pink and purple!
Commander tear this ship apart until you have found them track plans!

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 11342
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: WCML Franchise

Postby Bufferstop » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:39 pm

WCML isn't going anywhere ATM. Needs more capacity on it's trains, doubt that's Virgin's scene, they like 'em full and preferably pre-booked! East Coast should go to anyone who's prepared to hire Chris Greene as CEO.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

wobblybob
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:15 pm

Re: WCML Franchise

Postby wobblybob » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:54 pm

I am no fan of First Group - or Virgin. The great bulk of investment in the WCML upgrade was taxpayers' - not Virgin's - money, so let's see some realism in who gets the praise - and brickbats. Virgin's trains and fares regime were interesting experiments at the beginning of the privatisation era, but time moves on.

b308
Posts: 4868
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:48 pm
Location: North Worcs

Re: WCML Franchise

Postby b308 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:21 am

TK421 wrote:The staff have very little to worry about they are taken on in the transfer,


If only! They'll transfer over ok, that's been done many times and they transfer on their existing T&Cs like we did, their problem is what several other people have said, namely that First have overbid, which seems to be the norm these days. Virgin have already pointed out that the payments they are proposing to make to the Gov are several times higher than Virgin are making now, that sort of money cannot be made by purely an increase in passenger numbers so something else has to give - i.e. staff costs. Drivers should be ok (as usual!) and probably Guards (though there are ways and means of getting round them)... Apart from backroom staff who will probably be pruned expect to see reductions in catering staff like they did on FGW... The phrase "been there, done that" springs to mind as it happened with us at XC after Arriva took over.

All we are seeing now is a move backwards as the current system does not encourage true investment but just a continuation of the status quo, at least Virgin tried to move the railways forward, all we are seeing now is a move backwards which is a great shame...

User avatar
Essex2Visuvesi
Posts: 2357
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Finland, Finland, Finland!

Re: WCML Franchise

Postby Essex2Visuvesi » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:25 am

What is needed is competent upper managent... Maybe from from the Swiss or Japanese rail networks (Funnily enough both are state owned I beleive)
Si quam primum vos operor non successio , impono

The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

Proud member of the OAM
(Order of the Armchair Modeller

b308
Posts: 4868
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:48 pm
Location: North Worcs

Re: WCML Franchise

Postby b308 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:30 am

All that is needed is for that lot in Westminster to butt out and leave us to run the railways without interference... The current management are only like they are because they have to deal with the prats at D(a)fT and Westminster... :evil:

User avatar
poliss
Posts: 1661
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:28 pm

Re: WCML Franchise

Postby poliss » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:44 am

I'm quite happy that the franchise has been taken away from Stagecoach.

User avatar
TK421
Posts: 962
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:42 pm
Location: Faringdon with one R

Re: WCML Franchise

Postby TK421 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:43 pm

b308 wrote:
TK421 wrote:The staff have very little to worry about they are taken on in the transfer,


If only! They'll transfer over ok, that's been done many times and they transfer on their existing T&Cs like we did, their problem is what several other people have said, namely that First have overbid, which seems to be the norm these days. Virgin have already pointed out that the payments they are proposing to make to the Gov are several times higher than Virgin are making now, that sort of money cannot be made by purely an increase in passenger numbers so something else has to give - i.e. staff costs. Drivers should be ok (as usual!) and probably Guards (though there are ways and means of getting round them)... Apart from backroom staff who will probably be pruned expect to see reductions in catering staff like they did on FGW... The phrase "been there, done that" springs to mind as it happened with us at XC after Arriva took over.

All we are seeing now is a move backwards as the current system does not encourage true investment but just a continuation of the status quo, at least Virgin tried to move the railways forward, all we are seeing now is a move backwards which is a great shame...


Well companies are always going to try and cut costs somewhere wherever you work. But decreasing staff numbers would not have a significant impact on cost when First plan to introduce more services, more staff would be needed or more likely jobs moved around and staff spread out (why employee more?). One of the reasons they got the contract was because First own some of their own stock. With new trains going to the thameslink route (eventually), stock and staff could be moved around with no train hiring cost and if they spread staff these costs are already taken into account, excluding cost for new drivers :wink:
Commander tear this ship apart until you have found them track plans!

b308
Posts: 4868
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:48 pm
Location: North Worcs

Re: WCML Franchise

Postby b308 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:17 pm

I think you'll find it will happen, but we'll have to see! :wink:

User avatar
TK421
Posts: 962
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:42 pm
Location: Faringdon with one R

Re: WCML Franchise

Postby TK421 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:41 pm

b308 wrote:I think you'll find it will happen, but we'll have to see! :wink:

I'll see you back 2026 then :lol: :wink:
Commander tear this ship apart until you have found them track plans!

b308
Posts: 4868
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:48 pm
Location: North Worcs

Re: WCML Franchise

Postby b308 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:42 am

:) Give it 2/3 years... I do hope I'm wrong for my colleague's sake, but when Arriva took over XC and needed to make savings that's exactly what happened and I can't see First being any different... It's either that or they'll chuck in the franchise in the same timescale... Speak to you again on the subject in late 2015! :wink:

senorsenales
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:37 am

Re: WCML Franchise

Postby senorsenales » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:15 am

TK421 wrote:The staff have very little to worry about they are taken on in the transfer


They may well be TUPE'd over retaining the terms and conditions they had with Virgin but come promotion time they will be expected to sign a new FGW contract and go to work for possibly worse conditions and pay.

FGW took over my old TOC in 2004. Everybody who wanted promotion had to sign a new contract. I have friends still on their old contract because it is so much better than what FGW offered, and I am talking about thousands of pounds here for men in responsible positions. One man signed up and has regretted it ever since. Others have stayed as they are and intend to do so until FGW catch up, and that is probably never.

b308
Posts: 4868
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:48 pm
Location: North Worcs

Re: WCML Franchise

Postby b308 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:27 am

Did that apply to the on board staff, Senorsenales? (i.e. Drivers, Train Managers and Catering). With us when anyone gets promotion from catering to TM, Senior Conductor or Driver they just have the same T&Cs as those already in that grade.

User avatar
TK421
Posts: 962
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:42 pm
Location: Faringdon with one R

Re: WCML Franchise

Postby TK421 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:09 pm

senorsenales wrote:
TK421 wrote:The staff have very little to worry about they are taken on in the transfer


They may well be TUPE'd over retaining the terms and conditions they had with Virgin but come promotion time they will be expected to sign a new FGW contract and go to work for possibly worse conditions and pay.

FGW took over my old TOC in 2004. Everybody who wanted promotion had to sign a new contract. I have friends still on their old contract because it is so much better than what FGW offered, and I am talking about thousands of pounds here for men in responsible positions. One man signed up and has regretted it ever since. Others have stayed as they are and intend to do so until FGW catch up, and that is probably never.


That sounds about right sainsbury's did that to me when i worked for them so long ago I refused to sign the contract, but i was part time whilst at college I didn't need to go up in the world. But if you want promotion you've got to accept that it will be a new postion with essentially a new company to your previous employer just like getting a new job somewhere else, they're going to have different conditions.My brother is a driver for first and his conditions are better than other TOC's. At the end of the day worrying about changing condidtions in a promotion I would regard as 'little to worry about' as you'd have a job and a good one in today's climate.
Commander tear this ship apart until you have found them track plans!


Return to “Real World Railways”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests