Cable troughs and ducts

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raistlin295
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Cable troughs and ducts

Postby raistlin295 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:55 pm

Hi all,

I'm at the stage where the concrete cable troughs and orange under track cable ducts are being planned.

The picture below represents my idea and I was hoping those who know could offer some opinions as to how it might differ in the real world please.

The thick white lines represent the concrete troughs and the orange lines the under track conduit. You can see the various signals and the three powered points. I thought to run black power cables to each from the nearest adjacent trough.

Image

I know it isn't a brilliant picture but its the best I could do :(

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you
Paul

Finsbury Road My Layout

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raistlin295
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Re: Cable troughs and ducts

Postby raistlin295 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:59 am

Maybe not then :(
Paul

Finsbury Road My Layout

senorsenales
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Re: Cable troughs and ducts

Postby senorsenales » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 pm

I was holding back from replying so here goes.

Troughing is buried, where possible, so that only the top, liftable lid, is visible. If it is is on a walking route or an area where prople move around it shouldn't be above lid height because it becomes a trip hazard.

Lineside, away from walking routes, troughing can be laid to stand proud of the surrounding surface.

The troughing is there to keep the cabling away from the weather and also to stop it 'wandering' which it could do if buried directly into the ground, as it used to be. The vibration of passing trains makes the cabling move.

If you intend to bury the troughing there is nothing wrong with what you showed.

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raistlin295
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Re: Cable troughs and ducts

Postby raistlin295 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:52 am

Thank you :)

Why hold back from answering though?
Paul

Finsbury Road My Layout

senorsenales
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Re: Cable troughs and ducts

Postby senorsenales » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:36 pm

raistlin295 wrote:Why hold back from answering though?


My background was in operations rather than P/Way or S and T things and there are people out there who know a whole lot more about it than me !

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Durseytu
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Re: Cable troughs and ducts

Postby Durseytu » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:48 pm

And there are those of us that wouldn't answer because we have no idea either! :P

Cheers,

Stuart
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Jim S-W
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Re: Cable troughs and ducts

Postby Jim S-W » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:03 am

Hi Paul

Looks like a depot in the 70s so the simple answer is troughing would be very very unlikely and no chance at all for the orange pipes.

Troughing unlikely because points would be hand operated and there would be no signals so there's nothing to power anyway. Orange pipes were not introduced until the mid 80s

Hth

Jim

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raistlin295
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Re: Cable troughs and ducts

Postby raistlin295 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:58 pm

Thanks for that info Jim.

It is circa 1975 - 77.

There are 3 powered points operated by the signal box and a total of 9 signals in the area. So I guess cable troughs would be there but if not orange under-track ducts, then how did they get cables under the tracks back then please? That was the era when I was interested in railways as a train spotter but I never took that much detailed notice of the infrastructure :)



Thanks for all the other advice as well. I don't think one need be worried too much by the possible reaction of those who know more senorsenales, as this seems a very friendly forum :)
Paul

Finsbury Road My Layout

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Flashbang
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Re: Cable troughs and ducts

Postby Flashbang » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:18 pm

Hi
Main signalling multicore cables would have passed across the tracks in one of two ways...
1) By underground ducts with inspection pits either side with the troughing route leading into and out of the pits.
2) By a troughing route being laid across the tracks.

Orange pipe would not have been in use in the early/mid 1970's

Local 'tail' cables to equipment in track or line-side signals positioned opposite to the main concrete troughing routes run would have local tail cables clipped to the sleepers. The cables being exposed on top of the ballast where they left the troughing and reached the edge of the nearest sleeper, also again being laid on top of the ballast between adjacent tracks.

It was only with the introduction of mechanised track maintenance (Tamper machines) that Orange pipe was introduced to attempt to prevent Tamper cable damage. The idea being the tampers tines would push the pipe and its cables out of the way if accidental hit. In practice the effect was far different!

Orange pipe was banned from use in tunnels around 2000/2002 and completely banned from all new signalling works installations around 2005/6. Local tail cables being again clipped to the sleepers. Orange pipe could be used where a 'like for like' renew took place.
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Jim S-W
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Re: Cable troughs and ducts

Postby Jim S-W » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:19 pm

Hi Paul

I am not sure when they switched from overhead cables to troughs but it was the 70s. The cables just ran under the tracks back then. The orange pipes are actually there to make their location visible to tamper crews, a depot wouldn't be tamped anyway so it's not a problem.

Hth

Jim

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raistlin295
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Re: Cable troughs and ducts

Postby raistlin295 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:55 pm

Thanks chaps :)

So presumably, in 4mm scale, one probably wouldn't be able to see the cables where they passed under the tracks other than some loosely laid cable where the point machines and signals are located?
Paul

Finsbury Road My Layout

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Jim S-W
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Re: Cable troughs and ducts

Postby Jim S-W » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:02 pm

Pretty much yes. Remember depots were more mud than ballast anyway

Hth

Jim

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raistlin295
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Re: Cable troughs and ducts

Postby raistlin295 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:33 pm

Thanks Jim
Paul

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senorsenales
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Re: Cable troughs and ducts

Postby senorsenales » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:32 pm

raistlin295 wrote:There are 3 powered points operated by the signal box and a total of 9 signals in the area


If that is a loco depot you are modelling, and thats what it looks like, then the Signalman would have no interest in movements about the yard.

His sole interest would be getting engines onto or off the running lines and into the yard, where they effectively become sidings operated under local control of, possibly, a Shunter.

The only signals required would be to leave the depot where the engine draws up to the signal and the Driver advises the Signalman he is waiting and the route is then set out of the depot onto the running lines. Likewise when going onto the depot the Signalman sets the route and clears the signal. Once clear of the running lines he has no further interest in proceedings.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like a loco depot to me.

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raistlin295
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Re: Cable troughs and ducts

Postby raistlin295 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:32 am

Yes, it is a depot. The layout can be seen by clicking on the link in my sig.

As you say, the points within the TMD are manually controlled, but there is also a passenger train platform and a series of sidings linked to the canal wharf, which is why there are three machine operated points and appropriate signals :)

The approach to the TMD, wharf sidings and passenger platform is shared and bi-directional.
Paul

Finsbury Road My Layout


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