Over Crowding

Discuss real world railway operations in this forum. Find out how to make your model railway as accurate as possible.
User avatar
trainsandco
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 10:34 am
Location: Leeds

Over Crowding

Postby trainsandco » Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:36 pm

On the news there been alot on how trains are over crowded and how it is dangerous. It is also been said that the trains cants be this crowded....

but what exactly can they do? They cant have trains and higher due to tunnels, bridges and power lines. They cant have wider trains due to again bridges and tunnels and also platforms. Cant have longer trains due to platform length. The only thing they could do is have more frequent trains, but there are already lots of trains, and that wold increase train fares quite a bit.....

Any thoughts (again, try not to go political as it was originally some MP's who said that it was dangerous)

Ben
Henley on Thames in the 30's

Southerner in a weird place called "Yorkshire"...

81D & 55A

solario
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:12 am

Re: Over Crowding

Postby solario » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:06 pm

About the only thing they can do is what they do: put fares up to discourage passengers from all or part of a journey, or journeying at a particular time. :?

We are in a cleft stick, I'm afraid. :(

And when I think that they closed the old GC which was built to continental loading gauge and could have carried ouble decker trains..... :evil:

m8internet
Posts: 1640
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:32 pm
Location: Cumbernauld, Scotland

Re: Over Crowding

Postby m8internet » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:09 pm

trainsandco wrote:but what exactly can they do?

Put the standard fares up and lower the First Class fares
That should push many people to other forms of transport
Glasgow Queen Street Model Railway layout : modern image N gauge using DCC

User avatar
stuartp
Posts: 1199
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: Over Crowding

Postby stuartp » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:38 pm

The only two practical solutions are longer trains, or more trains (or both). Both require infrastructure changes over and above the cost of the trains themselves, which critics often forget.

They could always do a Ryanair and take all the seats out. If everybody was standing there would a lot more room and at least no-one could complain their seat didn't line up with the window. :P
Portwilliam - Southwest Scotland in the 1960s, in OO - http://stuart1968.wordpress.com/

m8internet
Posts: 1640
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:32 pm
Location: Cumbernauld, Scotland

Re: Over Crowding

Postby m8internet » Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:09 pm

stuartp wrote:They could always do a Ryanair and take all the seats out

That is already happening on "commuter" style trains so that they meet next years stricter DDA requirements
Ironic, loads of space so that a wheel chair can access any coach, but no actual space when there are fifty commuters standing in the doorway!
Glasgow Queen Street Model Railway layout : modern image N gauge using DCC

User avatar
joshing_man
Posts: 1192
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:23 pm
Location: High Wycombe, England
Contact:

Re: Over Crowding

Postby joshing_man » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:14 pm

I often use the First Capital Connect (ex Thameslink) route from Harpenden into London and they are extending the platforms along the route to allow for longer trains. There has been a major amount of work done and not least of course at London Blackfriars and London Bridge to presumably improve the experience. Some of teh trains are old and clapped out. Some are brand new withthe arm rests set too high for average height people and no overhead racks fro hand luggage/coats etc.

They already run 8 coach trains whereas on the Chiltern line which is the one I get from home when I go into London they are usually 2-5 coaches long yet they are building this unwanted and unloved high speed link through the countryside :twisted:

Andrew
The Original Smiling Man With Train (SMWT):

User avatar
poliss
Posts: 1661
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:28 pm

Re: Over Crowding

Postby poliss » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:19 pm

The high speed link is sorely needed. The Japanese have had one since 1964.

User avatar
joshing_man
Posts: 1192
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:23 pm
Location: High Wycombe, England
Contact:

Re: Over Crowding

Postby joshing_man » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:21 pm

It maybe needed but the route doesn't appear to be the most obvious one and when it splits into two it makes little sense.

Andrew
The Original Smiling Man With Train (SMWT):

User avatar
kennyGWSR
Posts: 1967
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: 89A Llanidloes
Contact:

Re: Over Crowding

Postby kennyGWSR » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:57 pm

joshing_man wrote:It maybe needed but the route doesn't appear to be the most obvious one and when it splits into two it makes little sense.

Andrew

if this new high speed link goes through, it will ruin Quaintons plans to extend.....
60089 Felstead :)
Layout: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=33128
Rail photos: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=28381

b308
Posts: 5006
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:48 pm
Location: North Worcs

Re: Over Crowding

Postby b308 » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:06 pm

Ok I'll be very controversial here... We DON'T need HS2... Nobody is that bothered about saving a few minutes, and between London and the Midlands and the NW we are only talking about minutes, not hours... Japan, France and Germany are big countries covering big distances... we aren't... so 186 or 200 mph just isn't needed, 140 is quite enough... After all Virgin has already killed the internal airline market between Manchester and London with only 125mph, what more proof is needed that HS2 is a waste of money...

Whats we DO need is all that money spent on the existing system to increase capacity, get rid of bottlenecks and straighten out the bendy bits... All of that could be done quite easily with the money that is going to be wasted on HS2... And will speed up services...

The whole HS2 thing is just politicians trying to look good and posturing, it makes no financial sense whatsoever....

There, Rant over.... :roll: :wink:

User avatar
ste234
Posts: 957
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:02 pm
Location: Teeside

Re: Over Crowding

Postby ste234 » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:14 pm

Abolish half of the first class areas on trains, the other month I was on a Voyager going to Berwick, standard class was packed, tightly, and first class had a grand total of 1 person :|
Also, on routes like Middlesbrough to Newcastle/Hexam/Carlisle via the Durham Line, pacers and 156's don't have the capacity to hold as many people!
Ste :wink:
'Springfield', N gauge Modern Era Layout

User avatar
poliss
Posts: 1661
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:28 pm

Re: Over Crowding

Postby poliss » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:44 pm

Distance between Tokyo and Osaka by Shinkansen 515.4 km. Annual Passengers- 151,320,000.
Distance between London and Edinburgh 534.26km. Present journey time, 4hr 32 minutes. Projected HS2 journey time with just London to Manchester section completed 3hr 30 minutes. If route fully completed to Edinburgh journey time 2hr 40 minutes. I'd hardly call 1hr 52 min just a few minutes.
Present journey time by train from London to Birmingham, 1hr 25min. Projected HS2 journey time 0hr 49 minutes. Over half an hour quicker than now.
Lets at least move forward to the middle of the 20th century.
If it was up to me we'd build three high speed lines. One on the East coast, one on the West coast and another to the West country.

BluePullman21
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:39 am

Re: Over Crowding

Postby BluePullman21 » Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:03 pm

trainsandco wrote:On the news there been alot on how trains are over crowded and how it is dangerous. It is also been said that the trains cants be this crowded....


We are having the same problem down here in Melbourne, Australia. They're thinking of cutting down on seats so there is more standing room, or have more services. Melbourne's public transport has always been overcrowded, so I don't think the problem is going to be fixed soon.

It also doesn't help that the trains are late half the time. :roll:

William

b308
Posts: 5006
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:48 pm
Location: North Worcs

Re: Over Crowding

Postby b308 » Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:55 am

I notice you don't quote the passenger figures, P! Thats because there aren't enough to justify it.

Also you hit the nail on the head when you said "fully completed"... You will find that outside the busy Friday afternoons, most Scotland trains are quiet north of Newcastle... And from my experience most journeys between stations north of Doncaster up to Newcastle are just that, local journeys.

In addition to that you quote centre to centre times, most journeys that people undertake aren't centre to centre, they are from their home to a destination away from the station at the other end, so saving 30 mins is largely irrelevent when taking the overall journey into account....

Looking at whats happened on the Man to London route, or, come to that, Brum to London, please tell me why we need a HS line and not just a major revamp of the current line instead, to include 140mph running, your "savings" would be a lot less with that and it would cost much less, allowing upgrades of other lines which desperately need it but won;t get it because of this fixation with going faster, no matter what the cost....

It is simple, there is just not the justification to build a high speed line, all it will do is take money from the rest of the network, as it has done in France.... You very neatly fell into the trap when you said "Lets at least move forward to the middle of the 20th century"... That seems to be the only decent justification to this white elephant, well, we can have new and modern technology without it, tilting trains, bi fuel trains, and hybrid trains are all just as "up to date" and 21st century as HSR, and in a small island such as ours are far more justified than a HSR that only serves a very small percentage of the population, yet another reason for not building it...

piermaster
Posts: 318
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Over Crowding

Postby piermaster » Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:40 am

In January 2009 Singapore Mass Rapid Transit (SMRT) experimented with removing 25% of seats from a 3-car unit:
Image
Not very popular!!! By middle of that year the unit reverted to its original seating amount.

By comparison this is the interior of a Singapore North East Line 6-car unit:
Image
With a 1200 passenger capacity per train!

Dave


Return to “Real World Railways”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests