Loco scrapyards

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0121modeller
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Loco scrapyards

Postby 0121modeller » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:22 pm

Loco scrapyards, Anyone ever visited one & how did you arrange this ?

For a totally new theme on my dormant 00 layout I've decided to re-create a yard/ sidings of loco's & other rolling stock in various dilapidated & "colision damage" with a couple of 47's & a 37 exposing thier engines.

I was thinking of paying a visit to Vic Berry's in leicester (being my neerest I think) as to take some of my own photo's for referance purposes for the more detail info for the scratch building of "exposed engines".

Any info about gaining permission & access , or other known loco scrapyard locations local to midlands area greatly appreciated :D .

Dave.
Scratchbuilding 4mm scale JXA scrapwagons ; - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37620
Scratchbuilt & kit built grappler claw cranes ; - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=36342

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Zunnan
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Re: Loco scrapyards

Postby Zunnan » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:28 pm

Head over to Kingsbury where the old Baddesley branch leaves the Derby/New Street line. Just before the oil terminal is EMR Kingsbury, you can see a bit of it from the road overbridge on Trinity Road which is also not far from where the site entrance is. I have a feeling that H&S will play a big part but if you make the right enquiries/requests to the right people there then you may be able to wangle a site visit, or at the very least get an insight into operations there.

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Re: Loco scrapyards

Postby m8internet » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:30 pm

I visited M C Metals in Glasgow during the 1990s, although was done without appointment I was attending a meeting nearby on a related matter
Glasgow Queen Street Model Railway layout : modern image N gauge using DCC

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Zunnan
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Re: Loco scrapyards

Postby Zunnan » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:38 pm

With regards to Vic Berrys famous yard, the entire site has been redeveloped in recent years. I went looking for it when I was posted to Braunstone Exchange and found little but student accomodation and a Tesco Express :roll:

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TerryB
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Re: Loco scrapyards

Postby TerryB » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:46 pm

I think :? Booths at Rotherham let you visit by appointment.
Even if they dont,you can get a good view from the dual carriageway running alongside the scrapyard.
Here's a quick linky .....
http://www.britishrailways.tv/british-r ... eo_id=1253
.....or try googling "CF BOOTH Rotherham" and try phoning them

Not that it interests me enough to want to visit [even though I only live about a mile away from the scrappie] ....I'm steam era only ... :wink:

hth
T.
I know it's the fastest .....but why did they have to name it after a duck?

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0121modeller
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Re: Loco scrapyards

Postby 0121modeller » Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:20 pm

Cheers Chaps :D
Yes, I've just tried googling map location for Vic Berry's that revealled nothing, Wikipedia result then revealed that fire had closed it down in 1990, some great shots on internet images & links, but would prefer my own referance's for specific detail / angled photographs of 47 & 37 engines.
Zunnan , I'll check out that kingsbury area , I have an orange hi-vis somewhere :lol:

Where do all the scrap / seriously damaged loco's go to now then ? Does BR have its own locations or any sidings with mainly stored locomotives awaiting disposal ?
As this would be idealy the type of thing I wish to model , (with rails laid , fenced off )
Tyseley TMD might be a good alternative to model I think rather than an actual scrapyard, a few years ago they had a gutted class 31, but no it had no engine alongside for me to photograph.
I'll think I'll take a drive to tyseley & Kingsbury sites to see if I can get any photogaphic info on the off chance of something being there.

thanks also TerryB, will also check Booth's out more, the images I've seen look very inspirational from what I've seen, distance to rotherham being no problem if I get the opportunity of good photo's.
I have just purchased 2 lima 37's & another lima 47 , I dare'nt put razor saw & knife to bodyshells & chassis's untill I've enough photographic referance :)

Cheers,
Dave.
Scratchbuilding 4mm scale JXA scrapwagons ; - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37620
Scratchbuilt & kit built grappler claw cranes ; - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=36342

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TerryB
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Re: Loco scrapyards

Postby TerryB » Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:42 pm

0121modeller wrote:Cheers Chaps :D
thanks also TerryB, will also check Booth's out more, the images I've seen look very inspirational from what I've seen, distance to rotherham being no problem if I get the opportunity of good photo's.
I have just purchased 2 lima 37's & another lima 47 , I dare'nt put razor saw & knife to bodyshells & chassis's untill I've enough photographic referance :)

Cheers,
Dave.


While your in Rotherham :wink:
It might be worth checking out Ron Hull Jnr's scrappie
http://www.ronhull.co.uk/about-us.php
I dunno if he allows the public to walk round,but I've seen a couple of 37's delivered there [by road] just lately .....[there isnt a rail link to the yard]
Also worth a visit might be Elsecar Heritage Centre ......it aint a scrappy,but there's a little preserved railway there.

hth
T. :wink:
I know it's the fastest .....but why did they have to name it after a duck?

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0121modeller
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Re: Loco scrapyards

Postby 0121modeller » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:13 am

"Stored serviceable" :?: - I've seen this term used in Pocket motive power books i have lying around somewhere,
Am I correct in assuming this means that the locomotive thats "stored servicable" is taken out of service indefinately , stored in rail sidings with other "stored serviceable" loco's awaiting a decision on thier future or stored for spares pre scrapping ? I've also seen loco's & rolling stock with a painted white circle with an inner "X" , does this symbol define scrapping ?

I googled stored servicable(images) & a couple of images came up with a EWS class 37 with no cab windows, it was parked on rails & the rest of loco looked in tact but very paint faded. Would this loco still be classed as stored servicable ?, if so does a TMD / MPD such as Bescot allocate sidings for stored servicable loco's & would these sidings & be a sort of internal scrapyard for donor parts from those stored serviceable locomotives '?

If so, then am I also correct to assume once a loco has been stripped of all usable parts for spares, the remaining body, chassis, engine & whatever else are taken to well known scrapbreakers such as booths in rotherham, EMR in kingsbury etc ?

How would they be transported to these scrapyards ? .., I've seen some loco's on low-loader HGV's , & I've also seen photo's of locos on rails in booths yard etc , so I'm assuming if bogies, wheels & general frame & body were in tact then they's be towed by rail & a rail link enters Booths ? or are they just crane lifted onto un-connected sections of track within yard as to stop the weight of loco's wheels sinking in ground ?

In 1997 I seen a rake 5 or more of what looked like dilapidated class 31's, 47's, & 37's coming away from I assume bescot MPD I seen them heading southbound through witton, but not sure where they were going due to the Y junction at aston being just out of my sight, could these have been on thier way to Booths or Vic berrys ?

Thanks again for knowledge & replies given :)
Dave.
Scratchbuilding 4mm scale JXA scrapwagons ; - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37620
Scratchbuilt & kit built grappler claw cranes ; - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=36342

m8internet
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Re: Loco scrapyards

Postby m8internet » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:47 am

0121modeller wrote:"Stored serviceable"

Taken out of service, but may be repairable as a decision is being awaited upon
This was very common in the late 1980s
For example one bogie might have failed
Therefore if another loco ends up with a failed engine or in an accident, then by swapping components from another donor loco it could return to service

0121modeller wrote:I've also seen loco's & rolling stock with a painted white circle with an inner "X" , does this symbol define scrapping ?

Not be used on the network, without special permission
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0121modeller
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Re: Loco scrapyards

Postby 0121modeller » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:34 pm

Thanks M8,
The modelling theme I wish to create is an area that will include something like this 31 in a photo I took a few years ago.
The location is tyseley TMD / museum yard area where I think they often store Items like this for possibly "stored servicable" Or I think in this case with the 31 stripping for spares, or possible renovation, (unfortunately I did'nt note the full number to find out its status, photo taken a few years ago)
Image
As I seem to remember, the engine had been almost completely removed (as I went inside main body but most of the body panels were still on)
If this locomotive was earmarked for scrapping, then would tyseley have cut the remaineder up themselves or would it have gone to somewhere like booths for fully cutting up ? & assuming the body, chassis, wheels & bogies were in sound condition, would this have been dragged via rail or taken by road by low-loader HGV ?

I am just trying to get idea's to include for an 8ft x 2ft 00 scale railway diorama scene with scrap locomotives as the main subject , other pictures I have borrowed* off internet for referance as for scratch building engine (*so would be wrong for me to post them here) show a class 37 at booths without any side & roof panels completley exposing its full engine,<< Primarily I'd especially like to model this :D
Question is : would a similar scene in that 37's condition be found also at TMD "stored servicable" area sidings. ? (as I'm not sure wether to model a TMD with scrap loco's, or model something like Booths / Vic Berry)
Also, are rail lines leading into booths, kingsbury & the former Vic berrys sites was/still is connected to rail network & still used to deliver such items ?

Many thanks again & sorry to be a bit of a pain with this. :oops:
Dave.
Scratchbuilding 4mm scale JXA scrapwagons ; - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37620
Scratchbuilt & kit built grappler claw cranes ; - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=36342

Lofty

Re: Loco scrapyards

Postby Lofty » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:11 pm

Not sure about the places that you mentioned but another breakers yard, Thompson’s at Stockton is definitely still connected to the network and receives locomotives and wagons by rail.

They used to store locos awaiting scrapping at Thornaby depot but I don’t think they actually did any cutting there

As far as models go I am currently building a 5’ x 2’ exhibition ‘scrap yard’. I had a small area on my last layout featuring a class 09 being cut up:

Image

I think that the ‘A4 challenge’ was a little before your time on the forum, but this was the winning entry:

Image

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stuartp
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Re: Loco scrapyards

Postby stuartp » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:39 pm

0121modeller wrote:Thanks M8,
If this locomotive was earmarked for scrapping, then would tyseley have cut the remaineder up themselves or would it have gone to somewhere like booths for fully cutting up ? & assuming the body, chassis, wheels & bogies were in sound condition, would this have been dragged via rail or taken by road by low-loader HGV ?


It depends. (What an annoying phrase that can be, sorry !).

Some main works did their own cutting even into BR days, I believe the Westerns were cut up at Swindon (?) but it would be unusual, possibly unheard of, for an ordinary TMD to do the cutting themselves. More usual would be for the TMD or main works to recover any useable spares then send the shell to the scrap merchant. Travel by rail was possible if the shell was fit to be moved, otherwise it would go by road. "Fit to be moved" varies as well - BR was well used to moving unusual loads but with the demise of unfitted freight such moves became less common. As a minimum the vehicle would need serviceable bogies, bearings and springs, and no loose bits of bodywork. On the privatised railway where everybody charges market rates for everything, even servicable locos may cost more to send by rail than the scrap value of the loco, so it goes by road.

If it's sitting on rails I'd say it had come in by rail rather than being craned onto a bit of spare track. Even if it sinks in it will only settle on the traction motor casings or bogie side frames, and that wouldn't bother the scrappy at all.

In the 1990s I was personally involved in the movement of a 144 from Skipton to Kilmarnock (for repair rather than scrap but same principle) - it had been rammed by a 37 and the body to underframe bolts had sheared. Two vehicles went up the Settle - Carlisle hauled by a 156 with the bodies held on with ratchet straps and two nervous bods from Neville Hill inside making sure nothing moved about too much, but the third was fairly well mashed and had to go by low-loader.

Other workings around the same time included a rake of 85s going to MC metals in Glasgow for cutting - they had no windows, pantographs or doors, the loco brake pipe was connected to an extension pipe which ran from the hauling loco through the windscreen of the first 85, through the engine room, out through the rear windscreen and so on until it exited the last 85, whereupon it was coupled to three Mk 2s tied on at the back to provide the necessary brake force. A rake of NSE DMU vehicles came the same way, no doors or windows just empty shells, and with the obligatory 'three fitted' on the back to provide some braking. Both movements spent more time sitting in loops and sidings than they did in transit, usually waiting for the C&W fitter to deal with whichever new bit had fallen loose or run hot.
Portwilliam - Southwest Scotland in the 1960s, in OO - http://stuart1968.wordpress.com/

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ste234
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Re: Loco scrapyards

Postby ste234 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:02 pm

Not sure about the places that you mentioned but another breakers yard, Thompson’s at Stockton is definitely still connected to the network and receives locomotives and wagons by rail.


Stockton's Thompson's seems to be doing quite well, apparently they are getting a few more loco's soon (not sure which/type etc).
On Stockton station on a morning you can sometimes hear a 66 ticking over behind you, or coupling up to the scrap wagons.
'Springfield', N gauge Modern Era Layout

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0121modeller
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Re: Loco scrapyards

Postby 0121modeller » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:47 pm

Thankyou all chaps :)
This thread has boosted my confidence as for me to soon put my knife, razor saw & old heated soldering iron* to plastic (*for dents / collision damage)

Lofty, Top inspirational modelling mate, I wish you the best of luck with your own project on similar theme, Stuart & Ste , Thanks also for the great information & accounts given :D

Dave.
Scratchbuilding 4mm scale JXA scrapwagons ; - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37620
Scratchbuilt & kit built grappler claw cranes ; - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=36342

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0121modeller
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Location: Erdington, Birmingham,.... but can also be found at various railway bridges !

Re: Loco scrapyards

Postby 0121modeller » Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:34 pm

stuartp wrote:Some main works did their own cutting even into BR days, I believe the Westerns were cut up at Swindon (?) but it would be unusual,

I've been searching for more general information on loco scrap yards & according to this link, Swindon did cut up some 52's.
http://www.derbysulzers.com/scrapyard.html
Some very Inspiring stuff from that link & others too.

Very slightly off topic, all the same related to my opening post & the inspiring replies & info given by others, I have today being studying all my information & photographic referance as to start scratchbuilding an 4mm scale engine,;

Image
One of the donor lima class 47's I have matched up with a referance source I have, the white area is a piece of styrene tile sheet from Evergreen. The position & size (70mm x 18mm) is near correct & the engine will be built onto this Evergreen tile profiled sheet.

Image

Image
A couple of good books I have with with cutaway diagrams & engine componant identification.
at the moment I'm just familliarizing myself with the engine from a class 47, putting aside many suitably shaped & sized parts for this, anything from various plastruct profiles, bent & shaped 1mm brass wire, & even certain items from lego that suit the size & shape closely resembling a particular part of the 47's engine.

I have already started a thread on a related class 47 modification subject which involves a project I had started adding more realistic serck shutters to look in open position,; viewtopic.php?f=16&t=15031&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p264027 (progression of this stopped due to us moving house & the major decorating & internal repairs that was needed) . I may decide to post my progress of the engine build on my 47 serck shutter thread as both modifications may well be to same lima class 47.

Dave.
Scratchbuilding 4mm scale JXA scrapwagons ; - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37620
Scratchbuilt & kit built grappler claw cranes ; - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=36342


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