rusting hulks around the country-any future for them?

Discuss real world railway operations in this forum. Find out how to make your model railway as accurate as possible.
User avatar
kennyGWSR
Posts: 1967
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: 89A Llanidloes
Contact:

Re: rusting hulks around the country-any future for them?

Postby kennyGWSR » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:11 pm

bike2steam wrote:
kieranhardy wrote:Though that isn't bad as the 8F being butchered for the County project....


Shame - an excellent class of loco being 'butchered' to make an average one, I suppose a named mixed traffic loco is more glamorous than an unnamed freight loco.
But there again, average is the thing when you think of both a 'Clan', and a standard 3 tank.
As an after thought, it would be interesting to know how much it really cost the B & W to get the T9 back into traffic. How did the NRM make it financially viable for them, when 15 years ago it wasn't for Swanage ???????

that was the last donny built 8f too :( the t9 repairs were funded by alan moore werent they :?:
there was a idea of getting three cylinders for 4771, not a monoblock but three seperate ones. if they want to keep it original, the monoblock would be better, plus it would proberly cost the same amount.
60089 Felstead :)
Layout: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=33128
Rail photos: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=28381

User avatar
Matty-37688
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:49 pm
Contact:

Re: rusting hulks around the country-any future for them?

Postby Matty-37688 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:29 pm

Theres quit a few hulks at the Tanfield Railway near Durham, mostly if not all old NCB locos and to be honest lovely locos, My pics here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattya7x/s ... 965109228/

Sad thing is some of them may problys never be used again...real shame :(

User avatar
kennyGWSR
Posts: 1967
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: 89A Llanidloes
Contact:

Re: rusting hulks around the country-any future for them?

Postby kennyGWSR » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:34 pm

Matty-37688 wrote:Theres quit a few hulks at the Tanfield Railway near Durham, mostly if not all old NCB locos and to be honest lovely locos, My pics here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattya7x/s ... 965109228/

Sad thing is some of them may problys never be used again...real shame :(

one thing that wont steam (well not at tanfield anyway) is the tazmanian loco. now that is nice, first time i saw it i said to dad, why is there a southern n class here that looks like a pacific???? :lol:
60089 Felstead :)
Layout: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=33128
Rail photos: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=28381

User avatar
Matty-37688
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:49 pm
Contact:

Re: rusting hulks around the country-any future for them?

Postby Matty-37688 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:42 pm

kennyGWSR wrote:
Matty-37688 wrote:Theres quit a few hulks at the Tanfield Railway near Durham, mostly if not all old NCB locos and to be honest lovely locos, My pics here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattya7x/s ... 965109228/

Sad thing is some of them may problys never be used again...real shame :(

one thing that wont steam (well not at tanfield anyway) is the tazmanian loco. now that is nice, first time i saw it i said to dad, why is there a southern n class here that looks like a pacific???? :lol:


Yeah its meter gauge that and most people think its a LMS crab or something with a similiar name to that :D

User avatar
stuartp
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: rusting hulks around the country-any future for them?

Postby stuartp » Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:11 am

Matty-37688 wrote:Sad thing is some of them may problys never be used again...real shame :(


Just to add to my earlier comments; something I do think we will see more of is cosmetic restorations of locomotives for static display rather than the current view that if it's being restored it has to be restored to full working order. You don't need the same degree of engineering skills, it's considerably cheaper, it doesn't have to be done all over again every time the boiler ticket expires, and it stops the loco rotting away to nothing without closing down the possibility of maybe restoring it to full working order later. It does mean that covered storage/display becomes more of an issue, but I'd suggest that a Very Big Shed is still cheaper than the long term costs involved in keeping a locomotive in working order, especially main line certificated working order.

It's already the norm in other preservation sectors - there are far more cosmetically restored aircraft in museums than there are flying ones for exactly the same reason. Anybody who thinks Scotsman is a money pit should take a look at the Vulcan's restoration and operating costs !

I'm aware that most preserved railways rely on the revenue from casual visitors who've just come for a ride on a steam train so you're always going to need a cohort of working locos, just not all of them.
Portwilliam - Southwest Scotland in the 1960s, in OO - http://stuart1968.wordpress.com/

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 12719
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: rusting hulks around the country-any future for them?

Postby Bufferstop » Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:33 am

Agree entirely. For pulling tourist trains day after day it makes economic sense to use something like the Austerity tanks. They were designed for ease of maintenance, they have a small grate area which helps to cut down firing costs and were intended to be used on less than perfect track. I don't see the point in large express types pulling short trains at 25mph, it's not recreating the image! We need more museums, so that we can safely store cosmetically restored examples for the day their turn comes around. Although it was a negative move the closing of the Birmingham Science Museum did achieve one success the narrow gauge Bagnall 0-4-0 "Leonard" was quickly returned to service, after about 40years indoors, proving the value of museum like storage.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

User avatar
pheasant
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:18 am
Location: Stonehouse, Gloucestershire

Re: rusting hulks around the country-any future for them?

Postby pheasant » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:54 pm

stuartp wrote: I do think we will see more of is cosmetic restorations of locomotives for static display rather than the current view that if it's being restored it has to be restored to full working order...... It does mean that covered storage/display becomes more of an issue


Perhaps the SVR's 'The Engine House' idea could be adopted by other preservation railway. It would give covered storage for locomotives awaiting overhaul and for cosmeticly restored locomotives waiting restorations plus an added attraction for paying visitors.

User avatar
bike2steam
Posts: 1061
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:46 pm
Location: near Blandford

Re: rusting hulks around the country-any future for them?

Postby bike2steam » Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:30 pm

Bufferstop wrote: For pulling tourist trains day after day it makes economic sense to use something like the Austerity tanks.


Not exactly, an Austerity was built for slow speeds,anything near branch passenger speeds leads to track damage, thro' lack of smaller leading or trailing wheels, and hammer blow isn't too kind to the permanent way.Many Austeritys used on passenger work have often suffered from firebox problems,clinkered grates, melted firebars, and blocked boiler flues The ideal loco is the Standard 4 2-6-4T, economical, easy to handle, maintain and kind to the pw.

User avatar
son of triangman
Posts: 635
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:32 pm

Re: rusting hulks around the country-any future for them?

Postby son of triangman » Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:29 am

Loads of clunkers at the Nene valley as well they have a mini Barry Scrap Yard on a siding, it's one of the first sights you see when parking there. One of their pioneer opening train locos Derek Crouch sits on the siding there and it looks like all that's holding it together now is the rust worm linking hands.

User avatar
kieranhardy
Posts: 768
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:41 pm
Location: Clacton On Sea - Essex
Contact:

Re: rusting hulks around the country-any future for them?

Postby kieranhardy » Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:30 pm

pheasant wrote:
stuartp wrote: I do think we will see more of is cosmetic restorations of locomotives for static display rather than the current view that if it's being restored it has to be restored to full working order...... It does mean that covered storage/display becomes more of an issue


Perhaps the SVR's 'The Engine House' idea could be adopted by other preservation railway. It would give covered storage for locomotives awaiting overhaul and for cosmeticly restored locomotives waiting restorations plus an added attraction for paying visitors.


In an ideal world all railways would have one, but the SVR was lucky in the fact they had land available close to the railway that they could build on. Having said that it hasn't cured the problem fully with their out of ticket engines. BR Standard 4 No. 75069 still sits out side in a rather poor condition with the rolling chassis of Pannier Tank No. 1501 & Ex Port Talbort No. 813 outside as they undergo overhaul. I could also see Black 5 No. 45110 & 7819 'Hinton Manor' outside had they not found them alternative places for display at Barrow Hill and the shopping centre.

Sadly many lines lack the space to build a big display shed or just a space for undercover storage. The MHR & Swanage come to mind, i can't really think of anywhere they could build to store their out of ticket locomotives.

bike2steam wrote:The ideal loco is the Standard 4 2-6-4T, economical, easy to handle, maintain and kind to the pw.


Absolutely, i know that many lines would kill to run them. The majority of class 4 & 5 engines are extremely economical for preserved railways, but having said that locomotives such as GWR 2884 No. 3850 has proved extremely popular and economical for the WSR.

Bufferstop wrote:I don't see the point in large express types pulling short trains at 25mph, it's not recreating the image!


Not entirely correct there..., Bulleid light pacifics were often seen hauling 1-2 coaches in service days because there were so many, seeing them on 4-6 or less certainly recreates the image. And to be honest with you a good majority of express passenger locomotives are on the mainline anyway. Apart from light pacifics & Lord Nelson which has had too many problems there are relatively few others that run on preserved lines soley. Clan Line, Sir Lamiel, Tornado,King, Duke, Duchess, Princess, all operational A4's, Castles, both brits soon and both scots soon plus the majority of Halls even though they are mixed traffic are all on the mainline.

User avatar
6C
Posts: 1302
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:45 pm
Location: Pingvollr, dans le Wirrale

Re: rusting hulks around the country-any future for them?

Postby 6C » Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:54 pm

TerryB wrote:In 1988 [when I first got interested in railway preservation] I came accross the rusting hulk [remains] of GWR 57xx PT #3612 [on the SVR] ..... what was left of this loco was too far gone to restore,and by 1990 it had been removed for scrap

Aye, I go back to 10 years before that and many of the locos such as the above were purchased purely for spares - not to restore at all.
As number of Barry locos diminished the attitude changed and preservation societies, rightly or wrongly (wrongly in my view) were encouraged to restore absolute basket-cases - that really were only good for spares...."Barry Scrapyard - the Presevation Miracle" by Alan Warren - is a mine of information on the subject and as it was written in 1988 - before the change in attitudes - it is not afraid to list 'purchased as a source of spares' as a fate - interestingly some of the 'spares' locos are now runners. It also list an incredible amount of Merchant Navies leaving Barry - where are they now...

The diesel situation has become farcical - I read somewhere that there are 36 Class 47's in private (non-train operating) ownership....

I have to in conclusion apply the classic car rule to what is and isn't worth preserving - just because age, doesn't make it a classic - e.g. a 1959 Ford Anglia will never be as important as a 1959 Mini just because it is the same age. It put simply does not have the historical and technical significance.
In some of the steam classes we are approaching the Class 47 issue with some classes ....
Pete

Fetch me a bottle of your finest Chateau Bichon Frise '65 !!

Terrier

Re: rusting hulks around the country-any future for them?

Postby Terrier » Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:21 pm

Triangman wrote:Loads of clunkers at the Nene valley as well they have a mini Barry Scrap Yard on a siding, it's one of the first sights you see when parking there. One of their pioneer opening train locos Derek Crouch sits on the siding there and it looks like all that's holding it together now is the rust worm linking hands.


Why don't you go along with your fireman's certificate Triangman ....and offer to volunteer, most of all, preserving/resurrecting locomotives relies heavily not just on the expertise and funds, but armies of willing volunteers

User avatar
kieranhardy
Posts: 768
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:41 pm
Location: Clacton On Sea - Essex
Contact:

Re: rusting hulks around the country-any future for them?

Postby kieranhardy » Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:36 pm

6C wrote: It also list an incredible amount of Merchant Navies leaving Barry - where are they now...


35005 'Canadian Pacific' - Awaiting overhaul at the Mid Hants Railway, last operational 2008?
35006 'Peninsular & Oriental Steam Navigation Company' - In advance stages of restoration at the Gloucestershire Warwickshire railway, could steam within 2 years.
35009 'Shaw Savill' - Restoration started this year by Ian Riley, estimated time for restoration was 3 years i think, will be main line operational.
35010 'Blue Star' - Awaiting restoration at Colne Valley Railway, cylinder is the main problem but appeal was launched recently, group currently focusing on Black 5 No. 45293
35011 'General Steam Navigation' - originally a 'no hoper' in preservation, made news when she donated a wheel set to 34046 'Braunton' at the WSR, now under restoration at Sellindge
35018 'British India Line' - Awaiting restoration at Portland, used to be based at MHR where restoration was started but left due to lack of progress, not sure what is next for her?
35022 'Holland America Line' - Currently at Southall, being used as spares (ie boiler) for 35027. Owner hasn't said no to a restoration for her though.
35025 'Brocklebank Line' - originally being slowly restored at the GCR, now with 35011 at Sellindge undergoing restoration
35027 'Port Line' - awaiting overhaul at Southall, last steamed in the early 2000's, will be restored to mainline running, currently finding somewhere for overhaul.
35028 'Clan Line'* - Still among the most reliable of mainline engines, she is currently undergoing repairs at Crewe (?) because of her recent injector problems.
35029 'Ellerman Lines' - sectioned exhibit at the National Railway Museum, will never steam.

*35028 was of course never a barry resident but i've included her for completeness.

3 (nearing 4) out of 11 having steamed isn't massively impressive i will admit but compare it to the light pacifics which so far out of 20 we have had 15 of them steam at some point. Out of the remaining 5, two are owned by SLlt with one (34053 'Sir Keith Park) expected to steam next year with the other ones restoration starting after. One is under slow restoration at the Avon Valley which just leaves 34051 on static display at the NRM & 34073 failing to find a buyer. If 18 out of 20 steam that is very impressive.

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 12719
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: rusting hulks around the country-any future for them?

Postby Bufferstop » Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:09 pm

Perhaps when big old Victorian mill buildings and the like are listed and shuttered up waiting the day they can be restored they could be made available to house locos awaiting restoration. Better than leaving them boarded up and empty.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

User avatar
6C
Posts: 1302
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:45 pm
Location: Pingvollr, dans le Wirrale

Re: rusting hulks around the country-any future for them?

Postby 6C » Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:35 pm

Cheers Kieran for the update on he MN's - fascinating - so only 2 may be no-hopers....
Pete

Fetch me a bottle of your finest Chateau Bichon Frise '65 !!


Return to “Real World Railways”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests