Steam locos in BR blue.

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fattybass
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Steam locos in BR blue.

Postby fattybass » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:29 am

Just a thought that maybe someone would know the answer to. When BR introduced its corporate blue livery in the mid 60s, we all know non steam traction would ultimate receive this garb. The question is, even though certain classes of diesel were due to be phased out, ie, 17, 22, 23, 29 even warships, some were painted blue. Now, did a steam loco ever recieve unlined blue with a double arrow on the tender? I have seen a photo of a 9F on the Settle line with an arrow logo albeit marked into the grime on the tender!. Even though steam was doomed, it would have been interesting to see what might have been. Steam traction was envisaged to last into the late 70s, so the thought of seeing blue 9fs and standards even black (blue???) 5s is interesting. So in a parallel universe, maybe br blue standards are on shed with Network south east liveried warships and westerns! Heritage lines take note, after all we got load hall liveried class 50s and large logo class 40s so why not a might have been on a steamer!

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Bufferstop
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Re: Steam locos in BR blue.

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:11 am

Yes some BR steam loco's did indeed wear the corporate blue. However they didn't have double arrows on their tenders as they were the two foot gauge tanks of the Vale of Rheidol Railway. It was a pretty poor paint job though, in strong sunlight the Brunswick green showed through!
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50035 Ark Royal
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Re: Steam locos in BR blue.

Postby 50035 Ark Royal » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:22 pm

fattybass wrote:Just a thought that maybe someone would know the answer to. When BR introduced its corporate blue livery in the mid 60s, we all know non steam traction would ultimate receive this garb. The question is, even though certain classes of diesel were due to be phased out, ie, 17, 22, 23, 29 even warships, some were painted blue. Now, did a steam loco ever recieve unlined blue with a double arrow on the tender? I have seen a photo of a 9F on the Settle line with an arrow logo albeit marked into the grime on the tender!. Even though steam was doomed, it would have been interesting to see what might have been. Steam traction was envisaged to last into the late 70s, so the thought of seeing blue 9fs and standards even black (blue???) 5s is interesting. So in a parallel universe, maybe br blue standards are on shed with Network south east liveried warships and westerns! Heritage lines take note, after all we got load hall liveried class 50s and large logo class 40s so why not a might have been on a steamer!

Yes we have got a Load Haul 50 unfortuantely, hopefuly not for ever, they will see sense and paint it back in a proper Livery.As regards NSE Westerns and Warships, well i supouse if the Warships had lasted longer on the mule then yes it could have happened.As regards Kettles im sure the ones on the Festinog Railway had a br arrow and were painted blue,but i am not sure and could be wrong might be the ones bufferstop mentioned and i am getting mixed up :oops: .
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kennyGWSR
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Re: Steam locos in BR blue.

Postby kennyGWSR » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:12 pm

50035 Ark Royal wrote:
fattybass wrote:Just a thought that maybe someone would know the answer to. When BR introduced its corporate blue livery in the mid 60s, we all know non steam traction would ultimate receive this garb. The question is, even though certain classes of diesel were due to be phased out, ie, 17, 22, 23, 29 even warships, some were painted blue. Now, did a steam loco ever recieve unlined blue with a double arrow on the tender? I have seen a photo of a 9F on the Settle line with an arrow logo albeit marked into the grime on the tender!. Even though steam was doomed, it would have been interesting to see what might have been. Steam traction was envisaged to last into the late 70s, so the thought of seeing blue 9fs and standards even black (blue???) 5s is interesting. So in a parallel universe, maybe br blue standards are on shed with Network south east liveried warships and westerns! Heritage lines take note, after all we got load hall liveried class 50s and large logo class 40s so why not a might have been on a steamer!

Yes we have got a Load Haul 50 unfortuantely, hopefuly not for ever, they will see sense and paint it back in a proper Livery.As regards NSE Westerns and Warships, well i supouse if the Warships had lasted longer on the mule then yes it could have happened.As regards Kettles im sure the ones on the Festinog Railway had a br arrow and were painted blue,but i am not sure and could be wrong might be the ones bufferstop mentioned and i am getting mixed up :oops: .

Festiniog never carried it, it was the Vale of Rheidol, close ian, only about 50 miles between them! :lol:
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50035 Ark Royal
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Re: Steam locos in BR blue.

Postby 50035 Ark Royal » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:36 pm

Well my knowledge on kettles is very limited i know very little, mainly because steam traction has never interested me :lol:
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Re: Steam locos in BR blue.

Postby fattybass » Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:51 am

Thanks Bufferstop. I had forgotten about the Vale Of Rheidol locos which were BR owned till 1989. I remember seeing them! They had cast arrows below their names and the coaches were all blue! But the real question is did any standard gauge steam locos appear in rail blue? Its unlikely any of the kettle crowd will ever deface their locos into a might have been livery, as diesel groups have.

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stuartp
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Re: Steam locos in BR blue.

Postby stuartp » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:47 am

fattybass wrote:Its unlikely any of the kettle crowd will ever deface their locos into a might have been livery, as diesel groups have.


On the contrary, they've been at it for years - the red 8F, red Ivat 2MT, 'Blue Peter' in LNER green, 4MTT in Caley blue, various K&WVR locos in ficticious liveries including a wallpapered Black 5, 'City of Truro' in BR lined black, and those are only the ones I can think of off the top of my head. I agree one in Rail Blue would look good !

Back on topic, I've never heard of a steam loco being outshopped in Rail Blue by BR other than the VoR ones already mentioned. Given the depth of detail which can be unearthed without looking very hard about (for example) Brittanias and 4MTs in lined green, unlined green, partly lined green, green with WR-style footplate lining, green with LM-style footplate lining etc etc, I believe any observed in blue would be very well known by now.
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Bufferstop
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Re: Steam locos in BR blue.

Postby Bufferstop » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:19 am

By the time Rail Blue was rolled out it was a rarity to find any steam locomotive with visible paint on it. I think we can be pretty sure it was never done.
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Re: Steam locos in BR blue.

Postby b308 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:19 am

I suppose if you include the blue livery carried by some BR locos in the early '50s as British Railways Blue then there were a few... but it was a much nicer shade of blue back then!!

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Re: Steam locos in BR blue.

Postby Bushey Troughs » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:58 pm

b308 wrote:I suppose if you include the blue livery carried by some BR locos in the early '50s as British Railways Blue then there were a few... but it was a much nicer shade of blue back then!!

Have to agree Hornby 'City of Bristol'. A shade lighter than BR Weasel blue.
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Re: Steam locos in BR blue.

Postby Bufferstop » Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:31 pm

Bushey, I don't think we can be at all sure what shade the BR trial blue was. Most people can't remember the shade of the living room carpet half an hour later when they are in a shop, let alone the shade of a loco 60 years ago. Colour photo's of the time are unreliable, mixing instructions always left the matching to be done by eye, and even paint samples recovered from old metalwork are only likely to give us the shade when applied not as it appeared after exposure to the elements, as the vital top layer is always rubbed away before overpainting. Unless there was someone wandering around with a photospectrometer in 1948 your guess is as good as mine.
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Re: Steam locos in BR blue.

Postby kennyGWSR » Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:37 pm

stuartp wrote:
fattybass wrote:Its unlikely any of the kettle crowd will ever deface their locos into a might have been livery, as diesel groups have.


On the contrary, they've been at it for years - the red 8F, red Ivat 2MT, 'Blue Peter' in LNER green, 4MTT in Caley blue, various K&WVR locos in ficticious liveries including a wallpapered Black 5, 'City of Truro' in BR lined black, and those are only the ones I can think of off the top of my head. I agree one in Rail Blue would look good !


i cant think of a few more, black five 45407 in furness railway red, 7827 lydham manor in gwr green, stepney in lined black, p class 323 bluebell in blue, 5972 olton hall in hogwarts red same with 34027 taw valley. i think most of them suit the liverys, with the exept 45407 and blue peter.
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Re: Steam locos in BR blue.

Postby Bushey Troughs » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:10 pm

Bufferstop wrote:Bushey, I don't think we can be at all sure what shade the BR trial blue was. Most people can't remember the shade of the living room carpet half an hour later when they are in a shop, let alone the shade of a loco 60 years ago. Colour photo's of the time are unreliable, mixing instructions always left the matching to be done by eye, and even paint samples recovered from old metalwork are only likely to give us the shade when applied not as it appeared after exposure to the elements, as the vital top layer is always rubbed away before overpainting. Unless there was someone wandering around with a photospectrometer in 1948 your guess is as good as mine.

Hornby used the paint samples and formula from the NRM, so I should think they have shade just about right. The last Duchesse painted experimental blue didn't turn malachite green until 1954.

(anorak mode on)The blue 'City of Bristol' comes with the Caledonian set. However the Caledonian didn't start running until 1957, so it would have never been pulled by a blue 'Princess Coronation class. (anorak mode off).
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Re: Steam locos in BR blue.

Postby Splop. » Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:41 am

Considering how long the class 37 has survived, would it not be impossible to assume some of the later 9fs could have been repainted into BR Railfreight livery?

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Re: Steam locos in BR blue.

Postby Bufferstop » Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:50 am

@Bushey
the old paint formulae were more like recipes the exact shade depended on the bloke doing the mixing, I'd say the Hornby shade is as near as we can expect to get.
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