Carriage colour schemes for early 90s BR passenger trains

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sp4rky
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Carriage colour schemes for early 90s BR passenger trains

Postby sp4rky » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:27 pm

Hi guys,

My layout is looking like 1993-1997 based and I'm looking through Hattons' online site searching for some carriages to be pulled by my BR Blue 37s.

What should I be looking for?

I'm seeing options for Brake cars, 1st/2nd/3rd (presuming class) cars, sleepers, corridors, argh! Not to mention mk1 thru mk4 cars as well.

I don't know a lot about trains and I don't know what order the carriages would be in and what types would make up a typical train.


In a simple world I would like to order a class 37 loco and 5 carriages to stick on the back in appropriate 1990s colours.

Is this the correct colour scheme at the very least:
Image

Any help much appreciated as always :)

Rob.

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Chuffer Chuff
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Postby Chuffer Chuff » Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:42 pm

Hi Rob!

Well judging by the time period your layout is, your looking at BR Sectorization (1982-1994) though to Privatization (1995 +). :D

MK1's, MK2's and MK3 coaches were used in the 80's/90's and HST's. More so today its mainly MK3's/4's, DMU's/EMU's and High Speed Trains.

The coach in the picture is a MK1 Composite in BR Blue livery, these were used right up until the early 80's before they got repainted into the "Sectorized" liveries. That would be suitable for your BR Blue 37's!

The main liveries that would be suitable for sectorization are: (MK1's)

Intercity Executive,

Image

Regional Railway's,

Image

Network South East,

Image

MK2 Coaches:

Network South East,

Image
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K9-70
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Postby K9-70 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:14 pm

It would still have been possible to see the odd Mk1 B/Grey coach in a consist on a secondary service.
B/Grey Mk2's A/B/C were used on the Leeds Carlisle service hauled by a 47 in the early 1990's. It was also possible to see Mk1 BG (Gangwayed Brake) mixed with Intercity liveried stock and maybe a Railfreight Class 90 hauling it.

HST's,
on the East Coast mid 80's B/Grey power cars and new Intercity coaching stock, or Intercity coaching stock and B/Grey power cars.
From 1987, it was very rare to see a B/Grey power car and matching stock. AFAIK; 43 090 was the last B/Grey power car to be repainted into the Intercity livery.
Image
43 090 York 12-07-1987
Image
43 089 Wakefield Westgate 14-07-1987

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mortyfootball
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Postby mortyfootball » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:34 pm

Sectorisation is 1989-1997. Privatisation was after 1997.

Colour schemes would be Intercity executive or swallow liveries, Regional Railways or Provincial liveries for workings such as TransPennine Express.
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sp4rky
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Postby sp4rky » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:39 pm

Excellent. Thanks for that folks.

So I think I'll want some Regional Railways or Intercity carriages.

How do I go about assembling a train load of these then?

I have the loco at the front. Does First class come second? Is the brake car at the back? Does the order matter?


Also, Hattons has some carriages with descriptions including acronyms like SO or BSK. What does this mean?

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K9-70
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Postby K9-70 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:03 pm

Sp4rky wrote:
Excellent. Thanks for that folks.

So I think I'll want some Regional Railways or Intercity carriages.

How do I go about assembling a train load of these then?

I have the loco at the front. Does First class come second? Is the brake car at the back? Does the order matter?


Also, Hattons has some carriages with descriptions including acronyms like SO or BSK. What does this mean?


Plenty of info on coach codes at this site.
http://www.abrail.co.uk/coach_codes.htm

Give me 24 hours and I'll dig out my old note books and post some train formations here.

Do you have any particular area in mind ?, most of my notes are from the West/South Yorkshire, as well as Carlisle and Glasgow.

K9-70
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Chuffer Chuff
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Postby Chuffer Chuff » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:08 pm

sp4rky wrote:How do I go about assembling a train load of these then?

I have the loco at the front. Does First class come second? Is the brake car at the back? Does the order matter?

Also, Hattons has some carriages with descriptions including acronyms like SO or BSK. What does this mean?


Well, the loco goes at the front, then first class or a brake, then second class and if you want a restaurant car, that goes around the middle after first. There is then typically a brake at the back, but its your train so it doesn't really matter, its how you like it! :D

SO - Means "Second Open" this is a coach without a corridor (that is known as an SK).

BSK - Means "Brake Second Corridor" which usually go at the rear of the train (it is half a second class coach and half a brake).
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sp4rky
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Postby sp4rky » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:53 pm

Fantastic Chuffer, that's exactly what I was after :)

And that website from K9-70 is a good read too.


Cheers guys.
Rob

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Zunnan
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Postby Zunnan » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:12 am

If you're modelling 1993-'97 then the majority of coaches you'll be using will be Blue/grey or Regional Railways Mk2a/b/c on secondary and DMU standin services such as the Cambrian Coast and North Wales coast. It was on these Welsh services that the Regional Railways Mk1's (and sometimes a Chocolate/cream Mk1) could be seen to strengthen the 4 coack Mk2 sets, or as a replacement for a faulty Mk2. Primary routes such as cross country trains used Mk2d/e/f rakes in InterCity livery while on the East and West Coast mainlines, locomotive hauled Mk3 sets became more commonplace alongside the Mk2 rakes. In the South, trains were formed of Network SouthEast Mk2b/c sets

Mk1's were rapidly withdrawn from service following the 1988 Clapham Junction accident, so modelling any time after 1990 they'll be pretty rare on anything other than charter trains and specials such as the 'Highlander' and catering vehicles on long secondary routes before the conversion of numerous Mk2's into mini buffet coaches.

If you're modelling a 37 in the mid 90's on passenger duties you'll want a Mk2 BFK, 2x SO and a BSO in a mix of Blue/grey and Regional Railways livery and maybe one Mk1 SO bringing up the rear to give you a pretty accurate train which could have been seen almost anywhere North of Northampton :wink:

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PTmodeller
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Postby PTmodeller » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:19 am

Not quite so true. I'm pretty sure the North Wales coast was operated by 37/4's with Mk1 Coaches...

http://northstar47840.photos.cn.com/p714230.html

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Zunnan
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Postby Zunnan » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:21 pm

Look closely at the 37/4 hauled Regional Railways stock, theres never more than one Mk1 in the train, and the rest of the photos are post 1997 privatisation liveries, so are beyond the dates sp4rky has set out to model. :wink:

Incidentally, that pic you linked to is of 37 408 hauling a typical rake consisting of a Mk2a BFK, two Mk2a SO and a Mk1 SO. There was often a Mk2a BSO before the Mk1 coach. Don't forget reversing direction to make the return journey the Mk1 would be at the locomotive end; if you look closely at the trains running this way round, the following coaches are always Mk2a/b.

I travelled on the North Wales coast line a lot in the final years of Class 31 haulage on these trains and also for a while after the 37/4s took over, and never saw a full train of Mk1s apart from two steam hauled charters.

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PTmodeller
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Postby PTmodeller » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:15 pm

Ohh right.

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Zunnan
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Postby Zunnan » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:45 pm

A quick derail...This isn't coach livery based, it's motive power based.

For those interested, heres the allocation and pools for the early '90s for Class 31/4 and 37/4 locomotives, so will give a very good idea of where they worked and what trains were hauled by what class. The 37/4s took over entirely from the Crewe based 31/4s during 1997/98.

Interestingly, this shows that in the early 90's, class 31/4s were the main motive power in England and Wales for secondary loco hauled passenger services while the 37/4s worked predominantly in Scotland with a handful on freight duty in England.

During 1987-89 the Cardiff and Immingham based 37/3 and 37/4s were used on Welsh services from Cardiff to Liverpool while the Class 155 Sprinters were away for rectification. These 37/4s were also used on Aberystwyth to London Euston (Cambrian Coast) services into the early 90's until replaced by Sprinters.

Deep breath, theres a LOT! :D

Class 31/4
Number - Pool - Allocated
31 400 - PCDB - Crewe
31 402 - DMEA - Bescot
31 403 - DMEA - Bescot
31 404 - PCDB - Crewe
31 405 - DMEA - Bescot
31 406 - PCDB - Crewe
31 408 - RXLB - Crewe
31 409 - DMEA - Bescot
31 410 - RXLB - Crewe
31 412 - PCDB - Crewe
31 413 - RXLB - Crewe
31 414 - PCDB - Crewe
31 415 - DMEA - Bescot
31 416 - PCDB - Crewe
31 417 - DMEA - Bescot
31 418 - RXLB - Crewe
31 420 - DMEA - Bescot
31 421 - RXLB - Crewe
31 423 - DMEA - Bescot
31 425 - RXLB - Crewe
31 426 - PCDB - Crewe
31 427 - RXLB - Crewe
31 428 - RXLB - Crewe
31 429 - RXLB - Crewe
31 431 - PCDB - Crewe
31 432 - RXLB - Crewe
31 434 - DMEA - Bescot
31 435 - DMEA - Bescot
31 438 - RXLB - Crewe
31 439 - RXLB - Crewe
31 442 - RXLB - Crewe
31 449 - PCDB - Crewe
31 450 - RXLB - Crewe
31 457 - DMEA - Bescot
31 459 - DMEA - Bescot
31 460 - PCDB - Crewe
31 461 - DMEA - Bescot
31 462 - DMEA - Bescot
31 463 - PCDB - Crewe
31 464 - DMEA - Bescot
31 465 - DCMC - Bescot
31 466 - DMEA - Bescot
31 467 - DMEA - Bescot
31 469 - PCDB - Crewe

Class 37/4

37 401 - FDTE - Eastfield
37 402 - FDTE - Eastfield
37 403 - FDTE - Eastfield
37 404 - FDTE - Eastfield
37 405 - FDTE - Eastfield
37 406 - FDTE - Eastfield
37 407 - FDTE - Eastfield
37 408 - DCEA - Immingham
37 409 - FDTE - Eastfield
37 410 - FDTE - Eastfield
37 411 - FABT - Tinsley
37 412 - FCLL - Laira
37 413 - FDTE - Eastfield
37 414 - FCLL - Laira
37 415 - FCTY - Thornaby
37 416 - PISA - Inverness
37 417 - FCTY - Thornaby
37 418 - PISA - Inverness
37 419 - PISA - Inverness
37 420 - FCTY - Thornaby
37 421 - DCHA - Eastfield
37 422 - FABT - Tinsley
37 423 - FDTE - Eastfield
37 424 - FDTE - Eastfield
37 425 - FABT - Tinsley
37 426 - FPBC - Immingham
37 427 - PCFA - Cardiff
37 428 - PCFA - Cardiff
37 429 - PCFA - Cardiff
37 430 - FPBC - Immingham
37 431 - PCFA - Cardiff

Pools

DCEA - Departmental engines, Eastern
DCHA - Departmental engines, Scotland
DCMC - Departmental engines, Crewe
DEMA - Departmental engines, London Midland
FABT - Railfreight Aggregates engines, Tinsley
FCLL - Railfreight Trainload engines, Laira
FCTY - Railfreight Trainload engines, Thornaby
FDTE - Railfreight Distribution class 37/4 engines
PCDB - Provincial class 31 locomotives (Regional Railways)
PCFA - Provincial class 37 engines, Cardiff (Regional Railways)
PISA - Provincial class 37/4 & 47/4 engines, Inverness
RXLB - Parcels class 31 locomotives

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Quentin
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Postby Quentin » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:37 am

Rob mentioned having a BR Blue class 37 - would the 37s have still been in this livery by the time period he is looking at (1993-7)? I know they started repainting into other schemes in the late 80's, and also that it generally takes quite a number of years to repaint all the loco's, but just thought I'd ask, as much for my own curiosity as anything!

Regards

Quentin.

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PTmodeller
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Postby PTmodeller » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:17 am

37408 survived in LL till sometime around Christmas 1998. She was a reliable performer and appears never to have had an overhaul which would warrant a repaint.

408 was sadly written off after accident damage and was recently cut at EMR, Kingsbury.


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