Fitted brake vans

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muggins
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Fitted brake vans

Postby muggins » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:18 pm

I've been trying to work our which Bachmann fitted brake vans are appropriate for BR 1948 - 1960 and I suspect I'm up against memory failure here. Did the common BR 20T vans of the type with the ends of the chassis projecting past the body have dangling brake pipes or did they dangle off the top of a short bit of upright rigid pipe? Or to put it another way, in the absence of any visible brake hoses, what makes this https://www.hattons.co.uk/194080/bachma ... etail.aspx a fitted brake van?

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flying scotsman123
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Re: Fitted brake vans

Postby flying scotsman123 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:12 pm

muggins wrote:Or to put it another way, in the absence of any visible brake hoses, what makes this https://www.hattons.co.uk/194080/bachma ... etail.aspx a fitted brake van?


The fact it appears to have a vacuum cylinder?
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Bufferstop
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Re: Fitted brake vans

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:49 pm

It's bauxite not grey so was a vacuum brake fitted van. My memory is upright pipes on the buffer beam. I associate short dangling hoses with air brake systems, but no definite knowledge.

Edited to restore colour back to grey Google's AI decided it was Henry.
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muggins
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Re: Fitted brake vans

Postby muggins » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:58 pm

Bufferstop wrote:... My memory is upright pipes on the buffer beam ...

Mine too. But it looks like none of Bachmann's bauxite brake vans are so equipped; in fact I haven't found one with any form of visible vac pipes! Wonder why ...

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flying scotsman123
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Re: Fitted brake vans

Postby flying scotsman123 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:09 pm

Bufferstop wrote:It's bauxite not grey so was a vacuum brake fitted van.


Not necessarily, fairly sure bauxite was for through-piped vehicles as well.
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Bigmet
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Re: Fitted brake vans

Postby Bigmet » Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:53 pm

flying scotsman123 wrote:
Bufferstop wrote:It's bauxite not grey so was a vacuum brake fitted van.

Not necessarily, fairly sure bauxite was for through-piped vehicles as well.

And BR's standard brake vans came in both through piped and vac braked. Most had a tall pipe stanchion, some vertical, some angled slightly, but there definitely were some vans (various designs) where the vac pipe was short stopping roughly at the top of the bufferbeam, the bag then looped down and well to the side parked on a 'dummy' under the bufferbeam. Why? Dunno!

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Bufferstop
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Re: Fitted brake vans

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:15 pm

Unless you've got a picture of one with a number that you can replicate, you aren't going to be sure what it had. As you say it's got a brake cylinder so it's got brakes not just a pipe. Claim rule 1 and do it your way.
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muggins
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Re: Fitted brake vans

Postby muggins » Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:47 am

Thank you gentlemen. I'm not that bothered about accuracy to any particular prototype, this being after all 00 with tension locks running on track with 30" radius curves and (so far) no signals. It was just that I seemed to remember them mostly with the upright stanchions, and it seemed strange to me that Bachmann don't make any like that.

Bigmet
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Re: Fitted brake vans

Postby Bigmet » Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:42 am

As for the vac pipe not being present on the models; that's because when Bachmann last tooled this item, it was before this fitting became general on their piped and fitted RTR OO models.

Not quite sure what prompted this, as there wasn't exactly a lot of competition for their selection of good models of BR steam period freight vehicles. Possibly Hornby's Shark ballast brake and the Trout ballast hoppers introductions? These were a real surprise, a leap forward into what had been Bachmann's territory. However this proved to be something of a flash in the pan, haven't seen anything subsequently of interest apart from their brake van selection.

muggins
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Re: Fitted brake vans

Postby muggins » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:20 am

Bigmet wrote:As for the vac pipe not being present on the models; that's because when Bachmann last tooled this item, it was before this fitting became general on their piped and fitted RTR OO models.

Et bien, a credible reason!

Mystery solved once again :)

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stuartp
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Re: Fitted brake vans

Postby stuartp » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:29 pm

The LNER 20ton vans on which the BR vans were based had tall vacuum pipes standing upright from the headstock. The Bachmann LNER vans have these. The BR bauxite vans generally had the low hanging type (two slightly different designs) but these foul tension lock couplings which is why they are not usually supplied on RTR models. Some of the bauxite vans were de-piped in the 70s just to confuse things.

Although described as 'fitted' the BR vans were in fact piped only (with the possible exception of one batch ?) and should not have vacuum cylinders. The extra complication of full brake gear along with the handbrake linkages was not necessary for the sake of just 20tons extra brake force on an otherwise fully fitted train, but the pipe allowed the guard to have a brake valve and thus control of the brake if necessary.
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flying scotsman123
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Re: Fitted brake vans

Postby flying scotsman123 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:38 pm

stuartp wrote:
Although described as 'fitted' the BR vans were in fact piped only (with the possible exception of one batch ?) and should not have vacuum cylinders.


Some certainly did, last summer we spent a good deal of time making it all work on one!
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muggins
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Re: Fitted brake vans

Postby muggins » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:50 am

Thanks for that, stuartp :)

It looks like Bachmann 37-527 is the only BR one they did with standy-uppy pipes.

Mike Parkes
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Re: Fitted brake vans

Postby Mike Parkes » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:41 am

The arrangement of the vacuum pipes was changed from lot 2206 to be below platform level so the only BR standard brake vans with upright vacuum pipes were those built under lot 2136, 950616-950865. Bachmann are therefore correct in not supplying a vacuum pipe with most of their BR standard brake vans as the coupling is in the way.

muggins
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Re: Fitted brake vans

Postby muggins » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:20 pm

Mike Parkes wrote:... Bachmann are therefore correct in not supplying a vacuum pipe with most of their BR standard brake vans as the coupling is in the way.

Thanks Mike. Not that it really matters to me, but it might to somebody else - is the LNER one (37-527) kosher with number 260922?


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