B1 class 61190 spare axle centres

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markS&D
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B1 class 61190 spare axle centres

Postby markS&D » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:04 pm

I bought this model for my father, in 1998, the model was run initially, but when my father moved house, the loco was boxed up, and that was that. Recently my father decided to take the model out of its box, only to find that the plastic axle centres have cracked, and the wheels won't stay attached.

These are the square ended axles, just wondered if there was anywhere out there that has replacements, plus one set of plastic spokes seems to have expanded and popped out from the metal wheel.

Any help appreciated.
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GWR_fan
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Re: B1 class 61190 spare axle centres

Postby GWR_fan » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:35 pm

Mark,
perhaps contact Peters Spares. They do the earlier round shaft version so may be able to provide info on the later square shaft models. In the past I have had to rebuild the split/cracked axle muffs, gluing the axle halves permanently together to get a locomotive operational again. Some of the damaged muffs were a jig-saw puzzle but the loco still runs. As regards the bulging plastic wheel centre, some say reglue the centre back in after trimming the outer edge, however, I have not been able to get the centre to reliably reattach. Best option is to remove and discard and paint the wheel centre black to match the other wheels. Once moving, the missing centre piece is barely notable in its absence.

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Re: B1 class 61190 spare axle centres

Postby Bigmet » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:29 am

markS&D wrote:...Any help appreciated.

I'll chip in with this thought, the split chassis mechs as you have discovered deteriorate all the time, in operation or not. It is a short life construction, and especially so if you run your locos a lot. You can spend money finding suitable s/h spares (no original spares have been manufactured by Bachmann for some years) and take the trouble to install them, only to have something else fail soon after. I glued up axle assemblies, modified wheel inserts, serviced them regularly, and thereby got my money's worth in operation; until the plating was worn through to the mazak on the tyres and in the axle journals, and then binned them as 'used up'.

There's a simple choice. Either decide to spend the money necessary and do the work as required to keep it running. Or decide to cut your losses at this point and buy either of the Bach or Hornby wiper pick up B1s, (the Hornby is very much superior) which will run 'forever' trouble free; and use the old model to represent a loco stopped on shed for boiler wash out or whatever.

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markS&D
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Re: B1 class 61190 spare axle centres

Postby markS&D » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:17 pm

Appreciate the advice, my father wants me to attempt glueing the axle and wheel centre back together, if that fails,then it could be a new loco.
My layout, only look if you are interested:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=48422

Latest Video Link:

https://youtu.be/g5ytOK5FCZc

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markS&D
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Re: B1 class 61190 spare axle centres

Postby markS&D » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:24 pm

The glueing attempt proved to be a waste of time, the leading driving wheel stub axle has split on both sides, plus 2 spoked wheel centers have popped out.

Annoying, really, when you think that I have a Hornby Rebuilt MN model which was introduced only a couple of years after this, and it is perfectly fine.
My layout, only look if you are interested:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=48422

Latest Video Link:

https://youtu.be/g5ytOK5FCZc

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Bufferstop
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Re: B1 class 61190 spare axle centres

Postby Bufferstop » Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:18 pm

The design was produced by Mainline when they were new to model railways and they made some poor choices in mechanical design. Bachmann took over the tooling and very quickly discovered they had a massive problem. They reworked the chassis as much as was possible and for a time produced replacement chassis (I know I have one under a Lima pannier tank, 20 years old and going strong}.
unfortunately it's one of those hit and miss problems and still bedevils the early Bachmann releases. The only sure cure is the modern replacement, either the chassis or the whole loco.
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Re: B1 class 61190 spare axle centres

Postby GWR_fan » Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:07 am

Mark,
dispense with the swollen decorative plastic wheel centres. For the broken plastic muffs simply treat the axle halves and the broken pieces as one part and superglue together ensuring the wheel halves are correctly quartered and in gauge. I have repaired disintegrated muffs that were in multiple pieces. Not the best alternative but far better than ditching an old favourite of your dad.

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Dragonfly
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Re: B1 class 61190 spare axle centres

Postby Dragonfly » Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:39 pm

It could also be worth contacting Replica Railways. They do old-style Bachmann B1s and a number of spare parts; even when not listed on their website, email them.

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Re: B1 class 61190 spare axle centres

Postby Bigmet » Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:51 pm

As an FYI, unfortunately the Replica B1 mechanism design is incompatible in detail. Bachmann completely retooled. Different axle assembly, different axle diameter, different gear train, different motor.

markS&D wrote:Annoying, really, when you think that I have a Hornby Rebuilt MN model which was introduced only a couple of years after this, and it is perfectly fine.

Actually the Bach split chassis B1 predates the Hornby MN introduced in 2000 by about 8 years. Shows how far things have moved: when Bach launched in 1991/92 with a group of split chassis models including the B1, these were the best performing OO RTR steam available: loco drive, no traction tyres, plenty of pulling power due to weight and a high torque can motor, and less compromised in appearance than Hornby taken overall.

Took a while for the sad truth of the fragility of their split chassis mech design to emerge; and pretty much as it did Bachmann kicked off in 1999 with their better standard 'Blue Riband' designs, starting with the WD 2-8-0, N class 2-6-0 and 57xx Pannier. Soon as I saw the WD, that was curtains for any further split chassis purchases from me. Much, much, better.

Mind, sixteen years on they are still not through renewing all the split chassis in their range with modern mechs.

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Re: B1 class 61190 spare axle centres

Postby GWR_fan » Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:23 pm

Bigmet wrote:........................................Mind, sixteen years on they are still not through renewing all the split chassis in their range with modern mechs.


Given that they have been producing these mechanisms for so many years it would have been ideal if they would have improved the integrity of the basically sound idea of the split mechanism for power pickup. The flaw was the poor choice of materials to manufacture the drives. Also, DCC readiness could have been easily overcome on the production run and yet no attempt was made to improve the mechanism. I do not recall the same manufacturer marketing this concept in "h.o." It seems like an unwanted orphan inherited from Mainline so many years ago and neglected.

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Re: B1 class 61190 spare axle centres

Postby Bigmet » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:40 am

They have though - it came as a surprise to me - at least once, as I was asked some time ago to 'breathe on' a Bachmann HO USRA heavy mike. Full on split chassis job with the Mainline (and later used by Replica in their B1) style of 'pod motor'. Much heavier plating on the wheel halves, but otherwise identical in generic construction terms. I imagine that may have dated from the start of their entry to the US market? All it needed was a new brush spring, obtained from a Mainline design tension lock coupler.

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Bufferstop
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Re: B1 class 61190 spare axle centres

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:11 am

It was very thoughtful of Mainline to provide each loco with two spare brush springs hidden in the couples. My Collet Goods went on to run ten years or so on the coupler springs. I think I have been extremely lucky. Second hand as a non runner Collet goods 12 years plus of use after I sorted out which screws went in from which side, a Bachmann 57xx replacement chassis now in its late teens and still going strong beneath my Lima 94xx and a Bachmann 04 now twelve years old and not a split axle or swollen wheel hub between them. Fortunately there's nothing left that I would want, which uses the split chassis.
Comparing the 57xx split chassis to the 225x Mainline chassis it's fairly obvious that Bachmann put some considerable work into the chassis design, can motor, two stage gearing and beefier axle diameters and plating, it's a shame that they didn't change the plastic compound used as any specimens which have escaped the swelling and cracking have given years of good service. Their only common annoying quirk is a need for a good "thrash" when first powered up after standing, before attempting to do any railway like manouvers at low speed. I suppose it's down to migration of lubricant in the axle journals.
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Re: B1 class 61190 spare axle centres

Postby GWR_fan » Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:29 am

Bigmet wrote:They have though - it came as a surprise to me - at least once, as I was asked some time ago to 'breathe on' a Bachmann HO USRA heavy mike. Full on split chassis job with the Mainline (and later used by Replica in their B1) style of 'pod motor'....................


Bigmet,
most likely dating from a 1970's trainset release. I have seen the same pod motor in the U.S. diesels but not in a steam loco.

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Re: B1 class 61190 spare axle centres

Postby Bigmet » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:44 pm

Interesting. Bachmann didn't have much visible presence in the US HO market when I was travelling there frequently for business over 25 years from the late seventies, toy brand rather than a model brand. Far more and superior well established competitors to contend with in North America, than they found in the UK.


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