Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Post your narrow gauge model railway questions here. That includes model railway narrow track gauges Nn3 to Gn15 and beyond!.
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Mountain
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:23 pm

The skip waggon is made from using Peco rail as a frame and baked bean tin for the body. The wheels were purchased secondhand and look like H0 box car wheels.
The rusty Wagon contains real rust. It has a body mounted on a Triang metal coach bogie and the wheels are old Romford wheels (10.5mm) mounted onto the Triang axles using small plastic drinks straw slices as spacers.
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Mountain
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:38 pm

Here is an easy project and cheap to build too!
The wood for the chassis is made from a small thin dowel bought from a hardware chain store. It is simply made in the form of a letter H. When I drilled holes for the wheels, they didnt sit straight so to remedy this, I opened up the holes to twice the size and drilled a tiny hole right into the centre of the chassis in an end to end direction (In other words I stood the chassis on end and drilled down the internal centre bit of wood). A small piece of springy wire was then inserted (Made from a single strand of a bicycle gear cable) and it was sandwiched over one axle, through the hole and over the next axle and was adjusted so it acts as a spring for the wheels without being too strong or weak. Careful bending made it just right.
While ideally try to get the axle holes right the first time, this is a bodge that created the novelty of suspension on the model, which most of the prototype didnt have!
The wheels are Hornby 12.5 disc wheels. I've yet to file the axle points down and I've not converted it to drawing pin couplings yet which will need slightly deeper buffer beams. The body was made from tea sturers with bicycle spokes cut for the uprights and thin drinks straw slices as spacers for the "Cage" bit fed over the spokes. The upper wood slats of the cage are tea sturers split lengthways in half and carefully drilled to go over the spokes.
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Dave
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Dave » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:47 pm

PinkNosedPenguin wrote:Then I thought about 0-16.5 :idea: (this is 0 scale 7mm:ft narrow gauge running on 16.5mm gauge track)
  • huge scale where you can actually see everything!
  • tight curves are realistic (ish)
  • short trains are realistic
  • these narrow gauge railways have so much character (e.g. Talyllyn)


Not that long ago there was a Tile works in the shadow of the Humber Bridge... A little loco and an empty single skip trundled along a very basic track. It was loaded with clay using a JCB and trundled back:

Barton-06.jpg


I started a micro to depict such a place, had I finished it I suspect all of your boxes would be ticked

15-01-15-01.jpg

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Mountain
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:51 pm

Actually most of all the narrow gauge lines in the UK were small lines like that. Some didnt own a loco. Others did and they were almost like glorified lawn mowers then locomotives.

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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:13 pm

Probably the easiest conversion when I first started in this scale and I wanted a cheap quick way to make my first rake of wagons are these.
They are simply made from fine mesh wire from some garden centres or farmers stores which is cut and mounted onto old heavy cast metal Triang underframes. They were simply held on to the chassis with gardening wire at the coupling ends. I do have plans to convert to better wheels and also to fit wood bufferbeams with the drawing pin type couplings. A future project maybe.
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Mountain
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:26 pm

This waggon started out in one of those battery trainsets found in toyshops. The trainset was so good that the wagons original chassis was used on an old Triang caboose as I didnt have the heart to destroy the set. (The set was given to a kiddie of a friend to enjoy).
The body was adapted and the transfers were scratched off to disguise their USA prototype origin. A new chassis was made in sub sections and glued to the body so the body is the main strength to the structure. The axle boxes were cast from resin which started out as bogie sides which were cut in two. Top hat bearings were glued into place and Romford 10.5mm wheels were used. The axles were glued onto pieces of perspex as a sub assembly and then glued to the Wagon as a single whelset. Wood was used for the bufferbeams along with DAS modelling clay to create the unusual angles behind the bufferbeams.
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby PinkNosedPenguin » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:37 pm

Wow, what a lot of replies suddenly appeared in one day 8)

kebang wrote:I've read & re-read this thread and the more I think about it the more appealing it becomes.
Totally agree :D

Mountain wrote:I believe I read somewhere the Peco Glyn Valley tram loco can be adapted to use an 0-6-0 chassis. Which chassis I dont know as I've not done it.
Yes I've read that too - if anyone has more info it would be great to know.

b308 wrote:Any tram loco can be fitted with any mechanism you want as the skirts will hide it!
Well, there's also a matter of whether the body fits on the chassis and if its easily secured!

b308 wrote:Going back to the OP and the two reasons given for changing, I assume that glasses will not correct the vision issue? Also regarding running, it doesn't matter what your scale/gauge is, bad running will take place regardless if the basics aren't done correctly and I've seen some pretty awful running on 16.5mm gauge (SG and NG) of late at exhibitions. It's far better to concentrate on making sure your baseboards and track laying is fit for purpose rather than move up a scale as if you make bad boards and lay track badly you won't solve the issue by moving up a scale...
Yes I do wear glasses (!), but I think you can agree that very tiny things are quite hard to see? I fully support your comments about quality workmanship with track/baseboards and I went to a lot of effort to achieve good results on my N gauge layout - I didn't mean it suffered from bad running per se - I said the small (light) mechanisms were extremely susceptible to dirty track, in a way I suspect larger scales are not (esp. when equipped with a stay-alive that will not fit in a smaller scale).

Mattc6911 wrote:Hi There, I'm slipping down the O 16.5 slope as well
Its addictive 8)

P.S. thanks for all the photos Mountain . . .

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Mountain
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:45 pm

You are welcome. It has been good to build them. One of the fun elements is that I'm making my own little railway company. Quite a bit of what I'm making is not finished yet. I want to get the layout trackwork finished and the wiring along with the points working from some sort of lever mechanism. I need to do some experimenting to see what I can come up with. Once the trains can run on the layout my attention then can go back to finishing off the ones I've made along with the couplings, and I also have quite a few unmade kits to build.
Though I do have a plan for a third board one day, I'm not sure if it is best to finish the first two or start building the third at the same time. The little railway company is a bit of a mini marathon as I've not chosen the easy route but I have learned so much so far that I feel that this alone has been a reward in itself. :)
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:24 pm

Have to say the nearest one in the last picture is the best narrow gauge "bash" on a Hornby Percy that I've yet seen. It looks a very plausible two foot gauge tank. It would be interesting to see a Bachman Percy/Gregg given the same treatment as they have a far better chassis for narrow gauge speeds.
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Emettman » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:33 pm

Dave wrote:
I started a micro to depict such a place, had I finished it I suspect all of your boxes would be ticked



G Scale (or similar) on 16.5 is a whole different but very viable game.
At 1/24 all the buildings kits and components for the smaller of the two doll's house scales are available, with the track representing a 15" gauge line.
Fairground, holiday resort, country house estate, WW1 military railway...

Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

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Mountain
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:49 pm

Bufferstop wrote:Have to say the nearest one in the last picture is the best narrow gauge "bash" on a Hornby Percy that I've yet seen. It looks a very plausible two foot gauge tank. It would be interesting to see a Bachman Percy/Gregg given the same treatment as they have a far better chassis for narrow gauge speeds.

Thanks. It is a slightly converted Smallbrook Studio kit to alter the Hornby "Percy". The kit widens the sides to allow the larger Smallbrook cab to fit. I chose the Percy green to match the green wheels. I painted the piston and con rods red and also the name and number plates. I felt prompted to call it Clöé. When I looked up the name it means "Little green sprout" so is very abt for the model!
I've not yet converted it to centre buffer couplings. I kept it for now with the tension lock loops as I still have a few items of rolling stock with tension lock couplings. I was considering adding some little coal bunkers either side of the cab like the other green loco has. The only other alteration from the standard kit that I've done is to carefully remove the safety valve assembly from the top of the dome and move it to the front of the cab as it was suseptable to breaking off. Since it has been moved, not only does it look better but it is in a stronger position.

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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:57 pm

Emettman wrote:
G Scale (or similar) on 16.5 is a whole different but very viable game.
At 1/24 all the buildings kits and components for the smaller of the two doll's house scales are available, with the track representing a 15" gauge line.
Fairground, holiday resort, country house estate, WW1 military railway...

Chris

Believe it or not, Smallbrook Studio do a few different scales to fit various chassis and I believe they do that scale and gauge combination.
I choose 0-16.5 because the scale is not too large and the gauge uses cheaply available 00/H0 parts.
For those who may not know 0-16.5 (7mm scale narrow gauge) has the American equivalent being known as 0n30 and the European equivalent being known as 0e.

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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby kebang » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:00 am

I've visited the Smallbrook Studio website ordered the 'Cardia' 0-6-0 diesel conversion for one of my Bachmann Junior's & a 'Ceto' conversion for a Hornby 'Smokey Joe'. I've also ordered a Hornby 0-4-0 'Caledonian' from Liverpool. (I was going to sacrifice my existing Hornby 0-4-0 Class 0F Pug Collectors Club special edition - but that runs so well I think I'll butcher the 12 quid special first :D )

Went to the local mall this morning to browse. Found a cheap battery operated tender loco with 2 coaches & an oval of plastic track. I was immediately struck by the fact that the coach bodies are 4.5 cm high at the longditudal centre line & 4cm high on the long sides. They are only 12 cm long. I felt that these were an excellent size for O gauge people & the planned O guage narrow railway (The wheel gauge was 2.5 cm. :( )

The price was 499pesos (8.50 GBP) so I purchased 2 sets.
O 16.5 Coach Conversion.png
O 16.5 Coach Conversion.png (479.44 KiB) Viewed 1155 times
top pictures are as bought, bottom pictures with an OO gauge chassis.

So now I have 4 coach bodies for my yet to be built narrow gauge railway'
In 30 mins I had removed the chassis off 1 & replaced it with a the very old chassis from a Hornby tanker, just to see the overall effect. My first impression was that it needs running foot boards (flat lollipop sticks are exactly the right size) and a door each side.
Any advice & suggestions for the conversions welcomed!
( The battery operated loco's, plastic track and chassis turned into simple low loaders will be found good homes with local kids!)

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Mountain
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:51 am

Hey. Those are brilliant. Such an easy conversion to get you started. I've not seen those trainsets in my area of the UK. The only thing you may need to do is reposition the couplings if the tops of the roofs of the coaches could touch each other in corners. You could cut the chassis in half and glue the chassis on as two separate half assemblies if this is a problem and you need a longer chassis. The central part can be filled with DAS modelling clay or a suitable filler. (I'm assuming you are adapting tension lock couplings on your railway. If you are adopting a different coupling then you dont need to cut the chassis).

I did find one of these which had been designed as some sort of push along toy, or it used track which was made for flat wheels. It only had doors on the one side of the coach so was most likely a tramcar trailer. I found an old Jouef Playcraft chassis and cut it and shortened it a bit to make it fit. I then added an old central underframe from an old Triang coach that was in my spares box.
I've carefully added layers of plasticard to build up the doorways. One doorway was inset so this has built it out a bit. Also added a vestibule door.
It is not painted or finished yet as I have to make a way to mount couplings that I need along with plastic glass for the windows (Though this will be added after painting).
{Note the lack of external doors and the eight flat type plastic wheels in the first photograph}.
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Last edited by Mountain on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:54 am

More pics of the coach. Note method to remove plastic by using a drill to make holes ready for carefully filing out the areas concerned. Also note the reclaimed Triang underframe part. :)
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