Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Post your narrow gauge model railway questions here. That includes model railway narrow track gauges Nn3 to Gn15 and beyond!.
kebang
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby kebang » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:32 am

I've read & re-read this thread and the more I think about it the more appealing it becomes.

I have an 0-4-0 hornby collectors model which I've already DCC'd & runs well, so this will make a good donor. I also have quite a few 0-6-0 tank locos & diesels both Hornby & Peco (so OO & HO) a few of these I could also use as donors.

In my scrap box is also a circle of 1st. rad hornby track, which I baulked at using on my main layout but I am happy to use on a narrow gauge 7mm layout. I've experimented on a piece by cutting out every alternative sleeper & to my novice eye it looks really authentic.

In the process of placing an order with Smallbrookstudio.

Can anyone suggest 0-6-0 conversions for the small Peco Tank?

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Mountain
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:02 am

I believe I read somewhere the Peco Glyn Valley tram loco can be adapted to use an 0-6-0 chassis. Which chassis I dont know as I've not done it. Two of my locos are Smallbrook Studio kit conversions and one is scratchbuilt from a Hornby Smokey Joe type loco (Saddle tank).
Smallbrook do a little 0-6-0 diesel shunter which is designed to run on either a Toby the tram chassis or a terrier chassis (Which has to be specified which chassis you are using if ordering the kit). These chassis have quite a short wheelbase to them.
It maybe worth contacting Peco and ask what chassis people have used in the past for their kits. Their loco bodies were originally from another small cottage industry manufacturer (From what I have heard) and the tram loco was designed for the available chassis in its day which would have been the likes of Triang etc, though I do not know if it was a straight fit, or if the chassis was adapted etc.
Hornby first radius curves are ideal for this use. Nearly every chassis you will be looking at for narrow gauge use should go round first radius as few of us will be using larger chassis that won't get round.
I turn much tighter again but the tighter you turn the less can negotiate it. I should be OK with short wheelbase 0-6-0's but not sure yet about others for my layout. :lol:
Enjoy the adventure of this scale and gauge. No doubt, if you are like me you will be seen looking round all sorts of shops to buy unusual things you can use for scratchbuilding. Things like drawing pins, paper clips, tiny clothes fasteners and anything else that is cheap and looks like it may have a use!

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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby mumbles » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:20 am

I took my Thomas tte apart to assess it as a donor chassis yesterday!

b308
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby b308 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:34 am

Any tram loco can be fitted with any mechanism you want as the skirts will hide it!

Going back to the OP and the two reasons given for changing, I assume that glasses will not correct the vision issue? Also regarding running, it doesn't matter what your scale/gauge is, bad running will take place regardless if the basics aren't done correctly and I've seen some pretty awful running on 16.5mm gauge (SG and NG) of late at exhibitions. It's far better to concentrate on making sure your baseboards and track laying is fit for purpose rather than move up a scale as if you make bad boards and lay track badly you won't solve the issue by moving up a scale...

There's plenty of RTR in HOe/009 which run well and are larger to use than N and you can use all the 4mm buildings and accessories.

One downside with O-16.5 is that everything is very LARGE, especially compared with N or OO standard gauge and that's worth considering as well... Buildings, for instance are very big in 7mm scale compared with 4mm, although if you model true narrow gauge then there may not be that many of them!

Choose your doner chassis carefully, going for the cheapest isn't always the best way forward... There are several decent 0-4-0 chassis that look better and run better than the cheapo Hornby items that everyone seems to go for...

There are a couple of other threads that you might want to read about NG modelling before you go for it, moving from SG to NG is quite a big thing, NG Railways are much quieter, have much shorter trains, and, in the main, don't run services like the Rush Hour at Clapham Junction... It's a very different type of modeling unless you already model Light railways in standard gauge!

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=50992
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=50356

In some respect it's a shame that Triang made such a pig's ear of TT scale when they did it! If we still had TT in this country like they still do in Germany and Eastern Europe that scale would have solved PNP's problems!

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Mountain
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:45 am

mumbles wrote:I took my Thomas tte apart to assess it as a donor chassis yesterday!

Nice. The easiest conversions use most of the body of a donor loco. I have a Thomas myself and did have a look at it, though for me the 0-4-0's I had were my chosen option. I was also looking at the old Triang diesel shunter they called a class 08, as they are so robustly made, and very cheap to buy secondhand. A brief run through my back to back scratchbuilt points wasn't successful but I've eased the point angles since so it may work. If my memory serves me, it did go round my curves but it was tight against the check rail. Thoughts were considered about the possibility of shortening the chassis to an 0-4-0, though it may not be so easy as only the middle pair of wheels hold the con rods on. No threads in the outer wheels and no flanges on the inner pair of wheels.... :?

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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby mumbles » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:03 pm

Mountain wrote:
mumbles wrote:I took my Thomas tte apart to assess it as a donor chassis yesterday!

Nice. The easiest conversions use most of the body of a donor loco. I have a Thomas myself and did have a look at it, though for me the 0-4-0's I had were my chosen option. I was also looking at the old Triang diesel shunter they called a class 08, as they are so robustly made, and very cheap to buy secondhand. A brief run through my back to back scratchbuilt points wasn't successful but I've eased the point angles since so it may work. If my memory serves me, it did go round my curves but it was tight against the check rail. Thoughts were considered about the possibility of shortening the chassis to an 0-4-0, though it may not be so easy as only the middle pair of wheels hold the con rods on. No threads in the outer wheels and no flanges on the inner pair of wheels.... :?


Not sure what ill do with it, i was googling for inspiration yesterday... Realised i need to work out what the dimensions would be in 7mm scale!

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Mountain
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:17 pm

I can measure my roofline of my locos if you like. Also the height of a man would help?

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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby mumbles » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:21 pm

Mountain wrote:I can measure my roofline of my locos if you like. Also the height of a man would help?

That would be helpful, and width of loco. Is there a site with 7mm loading gauge for NG?

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Mountain
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:59 pm

mumbles wrote:
Mountain wrote:I can measure my roofline of my locos if you like. Also the height of a man would help?

That would be helpful, and width of loco. Is there a site with 7mm loading gauge for NG?

Not sure about site as I've not looked. Sorry for delay as just run brothers wife to the bus stop.
Height of loco roofline (From rail height) for my Smallbrook Clio kit is 68mm but I'd allow for an extra 20- 25mm to allow for roof vents and if one has a brakevan with a lookout to it. Most of my coaches rooflines are about the same but roof vents add about 10mm in height.
Width for the wider Peco coach with the guards duckers is just over 60mm. Coach widths themselves with no duckers are about 45mm as are the Smallbrook locos I have.

Buildings. I recently purchased a home made 7mm scale GWR stables. (It has 4 mm scale brickpaper which I will address in the future, but it is a decent indication of size of a reasonable size building. It is not small but not large either, and is single storey.
Height is 113mm to the top of the chimney (105 to the top of the roof itself) which is about the same as roof vents. Depth is 100mm and length is 260mm.
Many similar buildings would be smaller or larger depending on the needs and materials and even the environment they are in. For example, in Wales in bad weather areas they build small to keep the heat in.
I hope this helps.
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Last edited by Mountain on Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby mumbles » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:06 pm

Cheers for that :)

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Mountain
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:07 pm

mumbles wrote:Cheers for that :)

See amendment to above post for more.

Mattc6911
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mattc6911 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:00 pm

Hi There, I'm slipping down the O 16.5 slope as well :D I've been picking up bits and pieces through the year so I can start putting something together this winter when the workshop is Baltic and work on the OO layout stops. The Mrs went madd last Christmas when I suggested she buy me a smallbrooke kit to try, No not in the way you think ! I sent her the link and listed 6 or 7 and asked her to choose the one she liked. . . She couldn't decide so bought 5 :lol: None of them have been built yet as family illness and subsequent passing on meant a year of long distance traveling which curtailed pretty much anything else being done.
I'm hopefull for a return to normality now and a quiet peacefull winter with some kit building and bashing .
Mountain that building looks great ! Would it be possible to put together a few bits . . A loco or two that you have done, bit of loose track etc and then put up a couple of photos ? This would help us new muggles to get an idea of relative sizes and perspective etc. I know there is tonnes out there via Google but it would give us a bit of a reference point to refer back too here (others who have also done some could join in as well ? ) Its to try and get an idea of the balance between Oo full O and O.16.5

Cheers

Matt C

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Mountain
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:55 pm

See Llwyndrissi Halt in the layout building section.

Here are a few pics for comparison between 00 and 0-16.5. The green loco is a Smallbrook Studio "Clio" kit on a old Triang chassis frame with modern Hornby 0-4-0 running gear. Coal bunkers have been made from plastic angled edging material (Sold in long lengths in hardware stores).

The black 0-16.5 loco is a simple scratchbuilt conversion. Plasticard cab with paperclip and wire used for internal cab details and paper clip to resemble roof rails for opening hatch, and an old watch battery painted to resemble a pressure gauge in the cab. The chimney is an empty ink cartridge from a fountain pen with the top cut off.

Also there is a standard Hornby Smokey Joe for size comparison.
Note. The black 0-16.5 loco has not had buffer couplings fitted yet, though the bufferbeams have been deepened ready. The buffers are made from drawing pins and the drop down loops are made from paper clips. The nameplates are made from aluminium fizzy drinks can cut and fed through a budget label printing tool.
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Mountain
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Mountain » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:12 pm

A scratchbuilt "Open" coach made from lollypop sticks, tea sturers etc.
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Dave
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Re: Shall I swap scale/gauge to 0-16.5?

Postby Dave » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:21 pm

Have a look at the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association website:

https://7mmnga.org.uk/index.php

They have a few resources on there and there is a link to one of their magazines which also has some useful articles in it.

I can recommend a couple of their publications, which are packed full of ideas for newcomers:

NG-Pubs.jpg


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