Converting 009 to OO

Post your narrow gauge model railway questions here. That includes model railway narrow track gauges Nn3 to Gn15 and beyond!.
User avatar
End2end
Posts: 3871
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Converting 009 to OO

Postby End2end » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:25 pm

Thanks for all your replies members. I thought there was a close scale that could be easily converted but as I've only ever used OO I wasn't sure and was only going on the look of some of the rolling stock I liked. :) I was thinking 009 was 00 + or - 9 something??? :? :lol:
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
glencairn
Posts: 2663
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:09 pm
Location: Both sides of the Border

Re: Converting 009 to OO

Postby glencairn » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:36 pm

b308 wrote:
glencairn wrote:If you want to run narrow gauge items on 00 track I think you would have to look at larger scale like 0n30 and the like. There's a challenge if ever there was. :D

Glencairn


Strictly speaking all you OO scale modellers on here that use 16.5mm gauge track are already running narrow gauge so there's no need to dabble in other gauges... :D


:lol:

Glencairn
To the world you are someone. To someone you are their world.

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 10786
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Converting 009 to OO

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:18 pm

We already have one member modelling four foot one and a half narrow gauge, perhaps it will catch on. :o
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 3094
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Converting 009 to OO

Postby Mountain » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:38 pm

Narrow gauge (009), whilst being the same scale as 00, the loading gauges of nearly all lines are considerably smaller then standard gauge so in most cases there is no real way to do it. The largest issue is of width as most narrow gauges are around half the width then standard gauge.
What you can easily do is buy some narrow gauge equipment and lay a narrow gauge line on your layout alongside the standard gauge line.
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

b308
Posts: 4790
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:48 pm
Location: North Worcs

Re: Converting 009 to OO

Postby b308 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:52 am

End2end wrote:I was thinking 009 was 00 + or - 9 something??? :?


Its OO scale (4mm/ft, 1:76) using 9mm gauge track (hence "OO-9") and is used to represent 2ft to 2ft 6inch gauge narrow gauge lines on OO scale...

(Just in case anyone else was wondering!)

Bigmet
Posts: 6262
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Converting 009 to OO

Postby Bigmet » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:59 am

Mountain wrote:...What you can easily do is buy some narrow gauge equipment and lay a narrow gauge line on your layout alongside the standard gauge line.

And if you are really feeling adventurous, there is dual guage track available from the likes of Tillig. This provides options for really sexy formations like sways and divergences, where standard and narrow gauge routes meet and run together.

The mainland UK is fairly unusual among major railway networked countries in never having major narrow gauge systems, and none of it networked on common routes with standard gauge lines. (The closest it got to this were the Lynton and Barnstable and Leek and Manifold systems, both long closed.) There was signficantly more of this in continental Europe with narrow gauge networks of many hundreds of miles, and Belgium actually having a larger route mileage in NG than SG at one time. As a result there is much better provision of RTR dual gauge track and RTR narrow gauge models on the continent. Roco actually proposed a UK extension to their range in the form of an OO9 Double Fairlie back in about 2007/8, but got insufficient dealer orders at the estimated retail price of £170 to make the project viable, so it didn't proceed. Sad that, I'd have gone for it.

b308
Posts: 4790
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:48 pm
Location: North Worcs

Re: Converting 009 to OO

Postby b308 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:08 am

The Welshpool & Llanfair Light Railway is another example of a "Common Carrier" Narrow Gauge and unlike the two you mentioned is still open!

The main reason we don't have NG networks like much of Europe is the way the UK railways were proposed, funded and built. Over here it was virtually all done by private finance, the Irish 3ft gauge networks being exceptions, whereas in Europe it was the National or Local Governments who organised things. The other by-product of that is that the networks on Mainland Europe are much better organised with none of the route duplication we had over here...

Other examples of Common Carrier UK based NG would also include the Southwold and the Isle of Man...

User avatar
End2end
Posts: 3871
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Converting 009 to OO

Postby End2end » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:30 am

Bigmet wrote:And if you are really feeling adventurous, there is dual guage track available from the likes of Tillig. This provides options for really sexy formations like sways and divergences, where standard and narrow gauge routes meet and run together.
The closest it got to this were the Lynton and Barnstable and Leek and Manifold systems, both long closed.


Ahh yes If I remember rightly there is actually a model railway layout exhibition down at Lynmouth just if your visiting and quite large too if memory serves.
It's funny you should mention the dual gauge track Bigmet. I think I saw the Tillig track in action last year at the Gaugemaster exhibiton and can honestly say I was very impressed as it's something I've never seen modelled before. :)
DualGuageTrack.JPG
DualGuageTrack.JPG (68.12 KiB) Viewed 609 times

Quite strange to see a narrow gauge train go snaking it's way from right to left, across the bridge and into the siding on the same track. Sadly I didn't take a picture of the layouts name. It's something I try to do so I know who to credit on any ideas I may get for my layout.
Thanks
End2end
Last edited by End2end on Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 3094
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Converting 009 to OO

Postby Mountain » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:32 am

There were a few narrow gauge lines that were set up as common carriers in Wales by seperate companies to the industries they served, and therefore could be called to carry anything of local concern. The main ones that survived tended to be the non common carrier types due to the sheer volumes of the industries they served, where they may have started as a common carrier but quickly changed to cater for just the one item. (For example, slate).
I will give examples.
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

b308
Posts: 4790
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:48 pm
Location: North Worcs

Re: Converting 009 to OO

Postby b308 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:44 am

There were some lines which had a separate passenger service (the Tallylyn for example) but they were not Common Carriers in the accepted sense of the phrase (designed and built to run timetabled passenger and goods services). The Welshpool was built as one, as was the original Welsh Highland, the Vale of Rheidol started off as a timber railway and developed into a Tourist Railway but the rest as far as I know, though they had limited passenger and ordinary freight were not really Common carriers but industrial lines which also had limited local public use such as the Tallylyn and Ffestiniog...

E2E that layout featured in Continental Modeller a couple of months ago and is used by the owner to market his sales of Minitrains equipment.

Bigmet
Posts: 6262
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Converting 009 to OO

Postby Bigmet » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:14 pm

End2end wrote:...It's funny you should mention the dual gauge track Bigmet. I think I saw the Tillig track in action last year at the Gaugemaster exhibiton and can honestly say I was very impressed as it's something I've never seen modelled before. Quite strange to see a narrow gauge train go snaking it's way from right to left, across the bridge and into the siding on the same track...

I find dual gauge track is very interesting in appearance - the operation looks better yet! - but it is a non-starter in terms of UK prototype as it simply didn't happen here. You have to do something ficititious if you really want it in a UK setting. I would have been tempted enough by a RTR Double Fairlie to say 'to hell with protoype' and put in a dual gauge branch section by the ECML.

User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 3094
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Converting 009 to OO

Postby Mountain » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:14 pm

Well known common carriers in Wales on larger scales were Welshpool and Plan fair, and the Glyn Valley Tramway.
To be fair, most were common carriers via smaller consignments in the brake van.
When one comes to lightly laid lines, one will find many common carriers where the large estate land owner would build lines to serve the communities. Wales right up to the late 1800's (And beyond) had certain large areas of land owned by a single individual. Some of these lines were kept lightly laid so they could be laid or removed and laid elsewhere within hours. Don't forget, horse traction was often preferred due to their ability to pull waggons up inclines steeper then a 1in 4 gradient, which were popular extensions of quite a few narrow gauge lines for forestry operations.
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 3094
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Converting 009 to OO

Postby Mountain » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:19 pm

One well known common carrier in narrow gauge horse drawn with L shaped rail (L shaped rails were popular for days before motorcars due to non flanged waggons could be used both on rails and on roads) was the Llanelly and Mynydd Mawr railway. It was started in 1797 (Or there about) and completed around 1802. I believe it was abandoned in the 1840's, though a few decades later became a standard gauge railway.
While this line didn't officially have permission to carry passengers, in practice it would carry anything it needed to carry which was said to include the odd passenger.
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

b308
Posts: 4790
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:48 pm
Location: North Worcs

Re: Converting 009 to OO

Postby b308 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:09 pm

The phrase "common carrier" when used for British railways relates to the Act(s) that surround the early railways rather than the fact that they just "carried everything"...

"The Railway and Canal Traffic Act 1854, also known as Cardwell's Act, was an Act of the United Kingdom Parliament regulating the operation of railways. The railways were already considered to be Common Carriers and thus subject to the Carriers Act of 1830, but the 1854 Act placed additional obligations on the railways due to their monopoly status. Each railway company was now required to take all trade offered and to set and publish the same levels of fares to all in respect of any particular service."

From Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_a ... c_Act_1854

It was the main reason for the decline in railways following the introduction of cheap road transport and dcent road surfaces after WW1 which were not subject to the same regulations. The Big Four were trying to get it lifted when they were nationalised but it only went in 1962.

Though many lines carried people as well as a variety of goods not all were governed by the Act. So "estate railways", ones built purely for the transport of things like granite or slate (many, if not most of the now closed and several preserved Welsh NG lines), etc., would not be classed as Common Carriers in the true Railway definition of the phrase even though they may well have carried passengers and goods.

User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 3094
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Converting 009 to OO

Postby Mountain » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:46 pm

You've clarified something for me actually. Mainly regarding the light railways act and why it was so important to the development of narrow gauge railways. Prior to this, many lines may have taken all sorts of things they didn't want to due to being forced in order to obtain permissions to run the line?Seem to recall something written about the early years of the Ffestiniog.
I just assumed it was an act to allow them to build lines. If they were exempt from the act you mentioned, it was the difference between success and failure for them. Nothing worse then being forced to carry things you are not equipped to carry.
Also makes sense why railways used to take abnormally large loads as today it all goes by road.
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.


Return to “Narrow Gauge Model Railway”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests