009 and slow running

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muggins
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009 and slow running

Postby muggins » Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:29 pm

Right now I'm just at the "Hmmm ... maybe I could find space for a little 009 layout?" stage, after a 30-year break from railway modelling, and I''ve been mooching round the inter webs looking at videos of 009 layouts.

Maybe I've been looking at the wrong examples, but it seems to me that poor or non-existent slow running is very common with 009. Many times I see trains leaping into action, tearing round the track then doing a Moorgate-style stop, so my first question here is - given that I really couldn't be doing with jerky starts and poor running, am I better off not considering 009?

Or is it in fact possible to achieve more prototypical running, assuming properly-laid track and live-frog points? If it is, what 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 chassis is my best bet to start 009 with?

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Bufferstop
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Re: 009 and slow running

Postby Bufferstop » Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:25 pm

The same considerations apply, as would getting smooth and slow running in 00, just need a bit more care and effort to achieve. I've seen some good running in 009, "County Gate" and "Cliffhanger" being two in particular but the need for performing under exhibition conditions was built in, (including baseboard vibrators below the spots where locos stand). I've also seen a lot that relied on a good prod every so often.
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Re: 009 and slow running

Postby mahoganydog » Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:47 pm

Hi Muggins,

The models you have seen may not be subject to regular servicing. For 009 it is common for the mechanisms to be from the Graham Farish stable. The only way to maintain the older types is to strip down and thoroughly clean the wheels and pickups. My locos always responded well and ran slowly when serviced this way.

As regards some kit built mechanisms if you don't get it 100% right they won't run properly and this is a real issue with such small and very light models as weight not only helps adhesion but also electrical contact with the rails.

Jim
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b308
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Re: 009 and slow running

Postby b308 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:48 pm

Bufferstop wrote:TI've seen some good running in 009, "County Gate" and "Cliffhanger" being two in particular but the need for performing under exhibition conditions was built in, (including baseboard vibrators below the spots where locos stand).


Even they could go wrong as I know when helping out, though he did achieve well over 95% reliability which for such layouts was very good!

mahoganydog wrote:The models you have seen may not be subject to regular servicing. For 009 it is common for the mechanisms to be from the Graham Farish stable.


Good points, Jim, though for modern HOe/009 mechanisms we don't use Farish any more, they only get used in kits. The modern RTR is on a par with anything N scale can produce and subject to the same constraints and built, in the case of Fourdees and Minitrains to the same standards.

It would indeed depend on what Muggins has seen and what he wants to model. If he is looking at old Eggerbahn or Jouef locos or old kits with Farish/Minitrix/Arnold chassis under them then he will have seen some poor running, though with care even they can be made to run ok. However if he chooses something like Minitrains then he shouldn't have any issues if he sticks to the golden rules of decent tracklaying, good baseboards and regularly cleaned mechanisms and rails...


You also get what you pay for, if you buy cheap then that's what you will get, pay decent money for modern stuff and it will work just fine... Too many people switch to narrow gauge to "save money" but, as always, you get what you pay for.

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Emettman
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Re: 009 and slow running

Postby Emettman » Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:58 pm

I'll second the fact that modern mechanisms are (mostly) much improved from the Egger-bahn and Farish generations.

With any layout where a train is a permanent formation, "ghosting" the loco with an 8-wheel motor bogie in the leading carriage or bogie van can be very effective...
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b308
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Re: 009 and slow running

Postby b308 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:01 pm

Bear in mind also that whitemetal kits can be modified to fit newer chassis, not just the ones that they were designed for.

muggins
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Re: 009 and slow running

Postby muggins » Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:37 pm

Thanks for your replies, gentlemen.

The kind of layout I have in mind is something of a freelance "industrial" nature. Unfortunately the only examples I can quote you right now of what's inspired me are one in an old copy of RM that I found, and one on t'internet. The first is "Moorton Bottom Yard" by Paul Windle in RM May 2007, and the other's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcqRzoBAWYw In that video,"Theobald's Yard" at 12.00 and "South Bierley Sewage Works" at 17.28 are my kind of thing. If I could get some elements of those three working well, I'd be a very happy bunny.

I completely take your points about tracklaying, cleanliness and so forth, and despite neither my eyesight nor my dexterity being what it was when I packed up 00 gauge 30 years ago, I'm confident of my ability to make a proper job of that side of things. The big unknown right now is some form of motive power to start with.

So, given that I'm drawn towards the kind of small industrial power seen in that video and I have a bit of a thing about controlability and reliable slow running, could I please have a suggestion or two for a locomotive to squander part of my pension on? Not fussed if it's steam or infernal combustion outline, and I'm fine with the idea of a kitbuilt body on a proprietary chassis as long as it's a fairly simple build!

b308
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Re: 009 and slow running

Postby b308 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:16 pm

If you want new and that won't break the bank try Minitrains...

http://www.minitrains.eu/mt-prod.html

They can be found for sale in the UK though shop around!

Also the Kato 4 wheel tram chassis is a great runner and used under many locos that weren't designed for it such as Peco's Glynn Valley Tramway loco kit.

If you are using 4 wheel locos then you are best avoiding dead frogs as seen on Peco's set-track range. Use their electrofrog 12" radius points instead.

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Re: 009 and slow running

Postby mahoganydog » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:35 pm



I spy a Baldwin "Trench Loco" which is a type that near certainly saw industrial service in the UK. Bachmann have some Ex ROD wagons/vans coming out at some stage and some railways used these for years afterwards. Ashover Light Railway was one.

Jim
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muggins
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Re: 009 and slow running

Postby muggins » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:53 pm

Gosh, thanks ever so much! Looks like I shouldn't have too much trouble then finding myself a little loco to get the feel of this with ...

Edited to add
b308 wrote: ... Also the Kato 4 wheel tram chassis is a great runner and used under many locos that weren't designed for it such as Peco's Glynn Valley Tramway loco kit.

Is this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kato-11-103-4-Wheel-Chassis/dp/B0003KCPICthe one you mean???

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Emettman
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Re: 009 and slow running

Postby Emettman » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:41 pm



Yes. they come in 2 or 3 code numbers, which are basically the sideplate styles for locos or coaches.
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b308
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Re: 009 and slow running

Postby b308 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:14 am

Beat me to it, Chris, yes that's the one!

Re the Minitrains locos, locos similar to the 0-4-0Ts could be seen over here and the Brigadelok (trench loco). The Baldwin is to 3.5mm scale for some reason, the others are 4mm-ish, though it's still a nice runner and you wouldn't really notice the scale difference unless it were put alongside the whitemetal kit of it. The Brigadelok can have valve gear issues though they are easily fixed.

For stock you could use the old Egger/Joeff tippers or tubs or some of the Peco L&B wagons which are quite small.

muggins
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Re: 009 and slow running

Postby muggins » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:38 am

Thanks once again gents. I'm beginning to have a far better understanding now of where I start from with this 009 lark, and it does seem like if I'm careful I won't have to spend much at all to give me a loco, a bit of track, a point and a controller so I can get a feel for it.

It's good 'ere, innit! :D

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Emettman
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Re: 009 and slow running

Postby Emettman » Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:55 pm

Just a note: for a SMALL OO9 layout, unless end to end, it is best to stick to the shorter "bug-box" coaches.
The newer Peco ones for example are very nice but long, and need more generous curves to run on (and look sensible).
SHORT bogie stock can usually be very handy for tight curves.
Tomix go down to 4.5" radius in their range of tracks!

A lot will depend here on how small "small" is, and the style of layout being aimed out.

Chris
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muggins
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Re: 009 and slow running

Postby muggins » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:25 pm

I'm thinking very much "industrial", by which I mean something which is mainly a dockside, chemical works, factory, warehousing or similar, possibly incorporating a bit of a quarry, so anything longer than an ordinary 4-wheel wagon doesn't figure.

But it's all still up in the air at the moment. I haven't got as far as layout planning yet, because I still need to work out if I can afford to spend even £100 to get me a controller, a length or two of track, a point and something that runs, so I can get a feel for 009. I'm not that pushed for space: I reckon I can manage 6ft x 2ft, with a single non-scenic track running off the narrow end along a very narrow shelf to a fiddle yard of some kind, for which I can just about get 3ft x 1ft. Just about enough for 00, in fact!

I still need convincing that I can get good enough slow running to make me happy with 009, hence the idea of getting a few bits to play with before committing myself ...


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