Narrow gauge help please

Post your narrow gauge model railway questions here. That includes model railway narrow track gauges Nn3 to Gn15 and beyond!.
bbdave
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Narrow gauge help please

Postby bbdave » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:21 pm

I would love to build a narrow gauge layout I model n at the moment but have a soft spot for narrow gauge layouts so I build a small one but I have a couple of questions, is HOe and 009 the same I plan an Austrian/German layout which is more suited?. What are the radii for the track I see the stock and locos are SWB so I guess 9" are no problems and lastly what gradients could I use. Thanks for any help advice.

Dave

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Re: Narrow gauge help please

Postby flying scotsman123 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:27 pm

My understanding is the gauge of OO9 and HOe is the same, but different scale, like OO and HO. Peco make OO9 track so I expect information like radii can be found on their site, gradients would probably be the same as in normal N gauge, perhaps a little flatter, as the same chassis are being used, but with bigger loads..
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b308
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Re: Narrow gauge help please

Postby b308 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:39 pm

bbdave wrote:I would love to build a narrow gauge layout I model n at the moment but have a soft spot for narrow gauge layouts so I build a small one but I have a couple of questions, is HOe and 009 the same I plan an Austrian/German layout which is more suited?. What are the radii for the track I see the stock and locos are SWB so I guess 9" are no problems and lastly what gradients could I use. Thanks for any help advice.

Dave


Ok:

HOe and 009 are not the same, only the gauge they use is the same, HOe is HO scale (1:87/3.5mm to the foot) on 9mm track representing 750/750mm gauge, 009 is OO scale (1:76/4mm to the foot) on 9mm gauge track representing 2' 3" gauge, though more normally 2' gauge trains. To put it in perspective, 750/760mm/2' 6" gauge is the minimum gauge where the use of transporter wagons can be used (i.e. standard gauge wagons transported on bogies in narrow gauge trains) anything less than that and they topple over, so 750mm stuff tends to be bigger than most (note: most ) 2ft gauge stuff...

HOe is more suited to a German/Austrian layout and there are many manufacturers who produce stuff in that scale/gauge. The best known are Lilliput (produced by Bachmann Europe), Bemo, Roco and Minitrains, all of which produce RTR at prices varying from reasonable to very expensive. There are also lots of smaller manufacturers who also produce RTR and kits. On top of that you can buy lots of HO scale building kits, people and scenics... Locos vary from small 0-4-0T to large 0-8-0 tender locos and large BoBo diesels and from small 4 wheel coaches to large bogie wagons and coaches...

As in all Model Railways the wider the radius of curves the better it will run, 9" should be regarded as a minimum, preferably 12"... Track, for someone based in the UK there's only really one choice and that's Peco, for HOe forget the 009 Crazytrack, you should use Peco Mainline HOe/009 track which looks far better and is a copy of current European 750/760mm gauge practice. Peco only do flexitrack, though Roco do setrack in HOe, 10.5" radius and, I think, about 13" radius curves.

Gradients? Same answer as curves, make them as gentle as possible, the HOe RTR locos do not use N scale chassis (except one small Roco small steam loco) they have specially made chassis and are very good runners. From my experience 1 in 25 is the steepest you should do, though that will limit the train length, preferably 1 in 40 or 50 will be better.

One final point, the track layout of a station in Germany or Austria is VERY different to that in the UK. The Europeans like stations made from a series of loops, sidings are not common, even at termini (except for engine sheds), so forget what you would do for a British station and do some research first... There's nothing worse for a someone who knows about Continental Railway Practice than seeing a British Track Plan with Continental Stock on it, it just looks soooo wrong!

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bbdave
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Re: Narrow gauge help please

Postby bbdave » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:23 pm

Wow thank you very much that helps a great deal i'm doing plenty of research before even starting this one.


Dave

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Re: Narrow gauge help please

Postby b308 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:26 am

There are lots of books around (Middleton Press ones may be worth looking at for English Language) and obviously loads on the 'Net. Most current Austrian and German narrow gauge lines have their own website so take a look on them. Any other Q's give me a shout! ;)

bbdave
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Re: Narrow gauge help please

Postby bbdave » Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:43 pm

I have downloaded Pecos turnout plans to have a play would ordinary N track be ok to experiment with I assume it behaves much the same. I will be building a small layout to begin with maybe a line through a small village.


Dave

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Re: Narrow gauge help please

Postby b308 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:35 am

Hi Dave

The only thing I'd say is to remind you that you will be modelling Continental Railway Practice, so forget what you know about British stuff and do some thorough research first.

A good source of HO scale German building kits which would suit the area you are modelling is produced by Auhegen, imported by International Models.

http://www.internationalmodels.net/acat ... _Kits.html

Blair

bbdave
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Re: Narrow gauge help please

Postby bbdave » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:30 am

Do I assume correctly the U.S. Equivalent is HOn3?.


Dave

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Re: Narrow gauge help please

Postby b308 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:00 am

Sorry, no!

HOn3 is HO scale (1:87) using 10.5mm gauge track (pretty much unique to the US, though some is made by the Japanese) to represent American 3ft gauge lines in HO scale.

The US equivalent of HOe is HOn30, the "n" stands for "narrow" and the 30 for 30 inch gauge (i.e. 2' 6" or 750/760mm gauge) in Real Life!

The Americans, British and Mainland Europe all use different ways of designating their narrow gauge, we did have a thread on it somewhere:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1481

I'd have to add TTe to that list now!

bbdave
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Re: Narrow gauge help please

Postby bbdave » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:45 pm

Things have moved along a little as my fiancée suggested we have a railway round the base of the Christmas tree I didn't argue at the prospect of getting a sly layout built. So I have cut a piece of MDF 48" O.D. With a 20" hole to experiment with track layout I think it will just be a single loop of track winding its way round maybe try a couple of sidings but difficult to get turnouts on a curve isn't it?.
I think I'll go for Hon30 as there seems to be lots of HO building variety on the U.S. Side of things. At least it doesn't have to be ready till next year so I have plenty of time.

Dave

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Re: Narrow gauge help please

Postby b308 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:48 am

You're on your own there! I no nothing about American NG practice and I suspect from the layouts I've seen neither do many On30 modelers!

There are lots of books on the 30" lines I'd suggest you get a couple. Don't know about stock, though, I don't know of any true HOn30 stock that is imported and if there is it'll be expensive as the Import Duties tend to be high... Word of warning, if you import to the UK from the US add a large amount for Taxes and the PO's processing of them!

bbdave
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Re: Narrow gauge help please

Postby bbdave » Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:40 pm

Well the plans have changed my fiancée has seen some of the Busch Christmas market stalls so I have to include those and a church so an Austrian/German theme looks to be a goer. Oh and plenty of lights but it'll give me an insight into narrow gauge and modeling HO scale which seems huge.

Dave

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Re: Narrow gauge help please

Postby Mountain » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:36 pm

Good luck. I found when I used to have H0e, they would negotiate gradients quite well. Much better then I expected after being more used to 00 gauge.
I didn't continue with my H0e and gave them to a friend, as I ended up with 0-16.5 as I found this easier to scratch build and brush paint etc, and mechnaisms were cheaper and easier to obtain via the secondhand market or sticking to cheap new (Hornby 0/4/0's).
For a Christmas tree you definitely need the 009/H0e approach. H0e RTR locos are so lovely and well made... Just the prices are somewhat high. There again, the tiny valve gear on the ones I had... They were beautiful.
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

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Emettman
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Re: Narrow gauge help please

Postby Emettman » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:39 pm

With 4' diameter you could comfortably model in On30 (0-16.5)!

On modelling narrow gauge,in general there tends to be an expensive way to do it with some very nice ready to run models, or the cheaper way which involves dropping new bodies over exist N (or 00 for the larger scale) gauge mechanisms and wagon/coavh chassis.
Some nice 3D printed loco bodies are now appearing for OO9, but I haven't had a look for Continental style locos. (or stock)

Chris
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b308
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Re: Narrow gauge help please

Postby b308 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:07 pm

Blimey! Resurrecting a thread from 2013!! I haven't heard any more so assume he didn't do it! Last active on this thread 3 years ago!


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