2ft x 6ft in 0n30 (That's 7mm narrow gauge to us in the UK)

Post your narrow gauge model railway questions here. That includes model railway narrow track gauges Nn3 to Gn15 and beyond!.
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Mountain
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Re: 2ft x 6ft in 0n30 (That's 7mm narrow gauge to us in the UK)

Postby Mountain » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:12 am

It is better to try then not try. These days I tend to question everything. For example, in 00 gauge many say not to use first radius curves. But why not if what you run will negotiate first radius curves? After all. Even 4th radius curves are sharper then the prototype ever had so we are not talking about realism here. (If we are talking about realism in 00 gauge, then why are we still using narrow gauge and not converting to P4 standards and why are we not using prototype couplings?)
It is all about compromise in our hobby. It is not about what we should or should not do, but it is about what works for us. After all, what we build will please some and not please others. So why not make it pleasing to ourselves and enjoy!

A couple of decades ago when I was young, I used to try and aim for everything to be as realistic as possible, yet back then most models were not to finer scale standards, I used 00 track for 4mm scale and though I did try Spratt & Winkle couplings for better realism, these too are a compromize.
While maturing in the hobby I have found that whatever I do is a compromize. That if I did model an exact replica of everything in a certain location at a certain time period, I'd be so bored with the hobby I'd give up.
I came to realize I needed to put some fun back and take a more light hearted approach. It was when I came back to 0-16.5 (After a brief attempt in my late teenage years) that I really started to enjoy the hobby again as I can do my own thing! It is not to say that I dont bring in a sense of realism somewhere.
It is because I can free up my mind to make a railway rather then make a copy of a railway.
My railway is (Or will be when I get things running and some scenery set up!) a railway in itself rather then a model of a railway. The passengers maybe little plastic figures and not actually move, and the goods may not serve any real purpose other then look the part, but it is all being built for my pleasure.
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HarryR
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Re: 2ft x 6ft in 0n30 (That's 7mm narrow gauge to us in the UK)

Postby HarryR » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:40 pm

Mountain wrote:but it is all being built for my pleasure.


If or rather I should say when, I actually do some 'modeling' myself, this will be my primary motivation,.

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Mountain
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Re: 2ft x 6ft in 0n30 (That's 7mm narrow gauge to us in the UK)

Postby Mountain » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:30 pm

HarryR wrote:
Mountain wrote:but it is all being built for my pleasure.


If or rather I should say when, I actually do some 'modeling' myself, this will be my primary motivation,.


Go for it! Start with a cheap Hornby trainset and go from there. The black loco I have was made from such a loco. All I did was to replace the old cab with a new one, and change the chimney for something longer.

One picture shows two locos next to the donor loco which comes with some of the trainsets. The green loco started off with the same Hornby chassis and has a Smallbrook Studio Clio body kit added. Then I changed the chassis to a Triang chassis but used Hornby parts.
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Re: 2ft x 6ft in 0n30 (That's 7mm narrow gauge to us in the UK)

Postby HarryR » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:56 am

I've seen a number of articles over the years on "Smokey Joe hacks", so I might well try out one of those

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Mountain
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Re: 2ft x 6ft in 0n30 (That's 7mm narrow gauge to us in the UK)

Postby Mountain » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:38 pm

Go for it! Let your imagination run wild. Also, if all goes wrong be aware that there are plenty of spare bodies available for the chassis as quite a few of us modellers have used the chassis for Smallbrook Studio kits. I have a couple of the GWR 101 types spare should the need arise. As a modelling project, you can't go too far wrong!
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Re: 2ft x 6ft in 0n30 (That's 7mm narrow gauge to us in the UK)

Postby Emettman » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:15 pm

HarryR wrote:I've seen a number of articles over the years on "Smokey Joe hacks",


Out of the Hornby 0-4-0's the Smokey Joe has couple of advantages: the outside cylinders which narrow gauge engines were more prone to have.
(less room inside!) and the metal running plate adding weight, and stability as the loco goes taller.

The one drawback is that metal running plate, if you want to shorten the loco.
Why would you? Well if using tight curves R1 or worse, the less the loco sticks out from the wheelbase the better as far as the couplings are concerned.

Percy makes a nice source body, and very much Bill and Ben (if available at reasonable used price) because of the oversized (in OO) saddle tank and the somewhat better mechanism.

They do turn up used on eBay, sometimes surprisingly cheaply.

Chris
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Mountain
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Re: 2ft x 6ft in 0n30 (That's 7mm narrow gauge to us in the UK)

Postby Mountain » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:44 pm

Emettman wrote:
HarryR wrote:I've seen a number of articles over the years on "Smokey Joe hacks",


Out of the Hornby 0-4-0's the Smokey Joe has couple of advantages: the outside cylinders which narrow gauge engines were more prone to have.
(less room inside!) and the metal running plate adding weight, and stability as the loco goes taller.

The one drawback is that metal running plate, if you want to shorten the loco.
Why would you? Well if using tight curves R1 or worse, the less the loco sticks out from the wheelbase the better as far as the couplings are concerned.

Percy makes a nice source body, and very much Bill and Ben (if available at reasonable used price) because of the oversized (in OO) saddle tank and the somewhat better mechanism.

They do turn up used on eBay, sometimes surprisingly cheaply.

Chris

You have to be quick to get Bill or Ben. I've recently seen then sell for £45.
I've also seen Percy for £35 each.
Those are the highest prices I've seen them I mush admit.

Shortening Smokey Joe isn't too difficult. You can take off about 1cm in total length by grinding the extensions to the bufferbeams. You dont have to take a lot off. One also needs to make some new couplings (Or buy some) as otherwise the shortening job is not going to bear fruit.
My black loco has been shortened slightly (See picture with the standard Smokey Joe alongside) and I've deepened the bufferbeam height ready to accept home made couplings.
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Re: 2ft x 6ft in 0n30 (That's 7mm narrow gauge to us in the UK)

Postby Emettman » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:08 pm

Mountain wrote:You have to be quick to get Bill or Ben. I've recently seen then sell for £45.
I've also seen Percy for £35 each.
Those are the highest prices I've seen them I mush admit.


I have all the OO chassis I need (and a few more) or I'd have a go at some current listings, though final prices remain unknowns.
I'm not afraid of "non-runners", which helps.


Shortening Smokey Joe isn't too difficult. You can take off about 1cm in total length by grinding the extensions to the bufferbeams.


Cutting plastic remains easier!

I have a couple of Smokey Joe bodies finished out as 0-6-0, which solves the end throw a different way!


Chris
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Mountain
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Re: 2ft x 6ft in 0n30 (That's 7mm narrow gauge to us in the UK)

Postby Mountain » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:45 pm

I find the overhang to be more of an issue with coaches then my locos so far. I have one coach I made from wood that is on the limit to what can go round my tight curves. It is OK, but it does set the benchmark as to the most I can get away with using a rigid chassis. I did some experimenting in wheel positioning. If I shorten the wheelbase they do go round curves easier, but the overhang at the ends increase which cause issues with coupling/buffer angles. While the issues can be partly solved by using bogies and mounting buffers and couplings onto the bogies, one then has large overhang on the insides of the curves if the coach is a long one.
I actually have a plan to rebuild my bogie coach which is not quite finished as it is, into two four wheel coaches. The reason for this thought is that the coach is quite narrow compared to my other stock, which I can remedy by a rebuild. As a rebuild will need new ends and a new roof, I may as well go the whole way and rebuild them into two short 4 wheel coaches for fun. Will also make it easier to mount centre buffer couplings. It is all just a thought for now though.
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Re: 2ft x 6ft in 0n30 (That's 7mm narrow gauge to us in the UK)

Postby b308 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:20 pm

Overhanging ends is a major problem in HOe with the Austrian and German 4 wheel stock, they've used two methods to solve it, both of which work very well...

Lilliput and Bemo use a coupling on quite a long shaft with the pivot in front of the axle and a flexible bit sticking out at the back which goes between two blocks on the underside of the chassis and "centres" the coupling when coming out of the curves. Here's a photo of the Bemo version:

Image

the other method is used by EggerBahn and stock can be taken down to 4" curves. It is a variation of a bogie where the bogie is a single axle with coupler mounted to it and so it swivels just like a bogie would with the same advantages.

Image

Both of these methods should work in O scale and would be easy enough to do.

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Re: 2ft x 6ft in 0n30 (That's 7mm narrow gauge to us in the UK)

Postby Mountain » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:32 pm

Used to have H0e myself. The short 4 wheel coaches were made that way. While they worked OK, I did find they dragged a little when the wheel flanges were not quite aligned to the angle the track was at. The bogie coaches with opening doors which I bought about 14 years ago ran exceptionally well and were weighted just right. The only downside were the cost. £37.99 or thereabouts each and that was back in those days. I loved the sliding guards doors though.
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Re: 2ft x 6ft in 0n30 (That's 7mm narrow gauge to us in the UK)

Postby PinkNosedPenguin » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:32 pm

That looks like a Bachmann Porter in your first video - which coincidentally I have just purchased from Train World in the US - it seemed a bargain at $59.99 DCC-fitted, though postage and possible customs charge will push that up. I'll then attempt to Anglicise it somewhat with a new cab and probably a much taller smokebox with a new chimney. Anyway, we'll see how it looks and runs when it arrives - I've seen them on eBay for up to £139.99 + postage (and I'm not talking about ones with sound) so I can always sell it on if I don't like it :D
Last edited by PinkNosedPenguin on Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2ft x 6ft in 0n30 (That's 7mm narrow gauge to us in the UK)

Postby Mountain » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:45 pm

I have seen a kit somewhere to convert those locos to a UK model. I think it was from a well known 3D printing company.
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Re: 2ft x 6ft in 0n30 (That's 7mm narrow gauge to us in the UK)

Postby Builder » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:01 pm

PinkNosedPenguin wrote:That looks like a Bachmann Porter in your first video - which coincidentally I have just purchased from Train World in the US - it seemed a bargain at $59.99 DCC-fitted, though postage and possible customs charge will push that up. I'll then attempt to Anglicise it somewhat with a new cab and probably a much taller smokebox with a new chimney. Anyway, we'll see how it looks and runs when it arrives - I've seen them on eBay for up to £139.99 + postage (and I'm not talking about ones with sound) so I can always sell it on if I don't like it :D


Hiya, firstly thanks for the tip!, I have also ordered a 0-4-0 porter from them, as you say, a bargain at the price,along with a lot of other items priced to go! My order has been dispatched, but i don't know what the postage/delivery period is, and wonder if you have info on your order?
Also, I was looking on peter`s spares, and he has hornby 0-4-0 rolling chassis for £13.60 looks good, but is it robust? http://www.petersspares.com/hornby-h56- ... on-rods.ir
Thanks, Jim.

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Re: 2ft x 6ft in 0n30 (That's 7mm narrow gauge to us in the UK)

Postby Mountain » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:41 pm

Those chassis are nice little things. The newest ones run nicely. The older ones run OK so I wouldn't say no. The insides of the wheels do need a clean to keep them running well. Some of the complaints in the past were mainly due to dirt or dust. They have been made from the 1970's onwards so have gone through a few small modifications since. The only main downside tends to be that they have a overly high top speed BUT the latest examples over the last couple of years have a much slower top speed.
The wheels have been darkened since Hornby moved to China. The earliest ones had a slightly larger motor which one could change brushes. There was one early example which used square axles and to me, this is the only one I tend to avoid as I find the chrome on the wheels of those tends to be a bit thin.

The main differences you need to look out for are if the chassis have cylinders or not as these chassis were used on many different models over the years. If you are using them on Smallbrook Studio kits, make sure you have the correct type for which the kit needs. With or wirthout cylinders. With for most kits and for two or three, without.

(See pics I put on above. The green loco used to have one of these chassis though II used the parts of a modern chassis and fitted them to an old Triang chassis. The black loco has the same chassis as the one in the link).
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