Zimo MX600R

[heda]

I've decided to go digital so now the question is 'what decoders'.
All my trains are fairly modern Hornby 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 with can motors, they won't be pulling any long trains and will be mainly operating at slow shunting speed. I'm not interested in any functions other than making the train move in either direction at various speeds.

Reading through the forums Zimo seems to be the one to go for so is the Zimo MX600R adequate for my needs, it's a good price and compact which will help with fitting. It shows as motor rating 0.8 amp (1.5 amp peak).

Dave

[Roger (RJ)]

What decoder to use is determined by a number of factors.

You can't just buy one make and model of decoder for all you models. Small locos may not have sufficient space for your "standard" decoder and may need a micro sized decoder. Although they are smaller they usually cost more, sometimes a lot more.

Also consider the type of socket that is fitted in the loco. Hornby generally use an 8 pin decoder in most models while Bachmann usually have 21 pin decoder fittings. There are quite a few different sockets and plugs for decoders.

If there is no socket fitted to the model you will need to fit one yourself or hardwire a decoder in directly.

Hope this helps with your choice of decoders.

[heda]

Thanks Roger

None of the loco's have sockets so I'm going to have to buy wired decoders then snip and solder. The MX600R are supposed to be quite compact which apart from the price is one of the reasons for choosing them.
Probably my biggest concern is the motor rating. I can probably fit it in somewhere but if it won't handle the current !

Dave

[Suzie]

The Zimo MX600 range (and all the other Zimo £20 decoders) will do the job. They have adequate current rating.

The basic MX600 has wires, the MX600R has a NEM652 8-pin plug, the MX600p12 is a PluX direct-plug in to a PluX socket. I fit a PluX-22 socket in locos that don't have a socket so I can just plug a decoder in, but you might not have room for a full size socket in your locos if they are small.

[heda]

Thanks for that Suzie, that's the answer I was hoping for, space will be tight hence going for a small decoder.
You mentioned in an earlier post that Zimo decoders had a 'little trick that they don't stop on dirty track' I appreciate it will only be a few mm but does that apply to these budget decoders do you know, I'm asking because I have insulafrog points which seem ok on analogue but might cause a problem at lower speeds.

Dave

[Bigmet]

Do you know I have never checked whether the MX600 series have the trick of not stopping the loco where there is no current. I'll say this, you have to work hard in terms of no track cleaning, poor wiring and the like to cause performance degradation. Not a 'scientific' evaluation, but these decoders are very good indeed.

And another aspect which may not be relevant immediately, but is sure to come your way sooner or later: control of coreless motors. Some specimens I have seen in recent releases are extremely non linear in response to current supply, galloping up to near half speed on the first breath of current. The Zimo decoder has small enough minimum output to produce the desireable creep into dead slow motion, and with nothing more than suitable values in CV's 5 and 6 a decently linear response is obtained on the default speed curve.

... I'm asking because I have insulafrog points which seem ok on analogue but might cause a problem at lower speeds...

What design are these points?

If they are OO set track type, not really suited to getting the best out of DCC, and especially not with an 0-4-0 operated at a realistic shunting speed.

The likely alternative in the UK are Peco's 'insulfrog' types. With care to lay them flat these should be OK. You may occasionally see a spark as a tyre momentarily bridges the diverging rails immediately after the crossing. If this doesn't trip the DCC system, a Zimo decoder will tolerate this and keep going. (DIY fixes are available if this problem arises.) When opportunity offers at some future time, think about going live crossing.

[heda]

Zimo it will be.
The current layout has Hornby points (not the best choice I know) but it is built to play with Grandson so I can get away with faster shunting speeds.
I'm currently working on a plan for a small shunting payout for myself to play with so I'm going to see how the decoders perform over the Hornby points before committing to track purchase although I'll likely go for Peco electrofrog anyway.

Dave

[RAF96]

If you have the room there is no more soldering involved in fitting a socket than there is hard wiring a decoder. This pays dividends if you want to swap decoders or do fault finding or stall current checks under DC conditions.

[Mountain]

The only real issue with DCC going over insulated frog points is with the inertia or back EMF. A standard DC loco has no decoder that uses these features so any current interuption is not going to effect it unless it is going so slow that it stalls right on the spot where the current can't reach (Which is a very small area).
BUT, with DCC, the fraction of a second stall will mean that the inertia (And possibly the back EMF) will assume that the loco has started again from a stand and the loco will stop and start again.
This can be remmedied by going into the programming setting (Which is why buying a decent DCC system is a good plan as decent ones can access all these decoder settings, while basic starter systems are limited to which programming settings they can access), and turning the inertia setting to off or zero. If that does not work then do the same to the back EMF setting as well.

Other that that, there should in theory be no issues other than one would get with DC when it comes to the wheel to track running capabilities. If it runs ok on DC, then it should run fine on DCC as well, and most more modern track has such a short area of isolated frog that it is hardly going to be a problwm other than to restart the DCC's inertia on some model locos which can be turned off in the settings anyway.
The only real issue is if one has these issues and can't fathom what is actually going on, which is where I was a year or two ago when I was puzzled why a certain loco was now and then suddenly stopping but then slowly gaining speed again and repeating the same process as it went down the track. Once I asked for a solution and it was explained to switch off the inertia, it ran beautifully!

[Suzie]

I have not noticed the not stopping on dirty track with the MX600 and similar decoders yet, but I am pretty sure that they will have this feature, but being budget will not have much storage on the decoder.

Peco Streamline Insulfrog points have a shorting problem that is not present on other makes of dead frog points. The Insulfrog frog design makes them unsuitable for DCC use because they cause shorting which is much more disruptive than a brief loss of power. Set track points will not have the shorting problem, but do have an awful lot of plastic in the frog. If you must use Peco Streamline Insulfrog points just wire them as if they are live frog.

In practice most people do not try and stop a loco on a point frog so the Zimo feature will not usually be seen on point frogs, just on dirty plain track.

[Bigmet]

...Peco Streamline Insulfrog points have a shorting problem that is not present on other makes of dead frog points. The Insulfrog frog design makes them unsuitable for DCC use because they cause shorting which is much more disruptive than a brief loss of power...

I imagine this problem may have contributed to Peco's decision to move toward the Unifrog design?

If you must use Peco Streamline Insulfrog points just wire them as if they are live frog...

Or if you don't mind losing the geometry, chop out the plastic crossing, reshape the rail ends at crossing and solder up to convert to live crossing. It doesn't look pretty, but if all you need are points for a storage yard or other non-scenic locations why not have live crossings?

[Peterm]

My two pennarth. I use Zimo exclusively because I don't have to learn about different makes of decoders and they perform really well. With your 0-6-0's and particularly 0-4-0's you may well find that there's not enough room for an MX600.

In these cases I've used a MX617f. If you buy the MX617f with wires, the plug can be cut off leaving you with the track and motor wires, including the blue common positive, so that if you decide to fit (recommended) a small stay alive such as the Lais Kung Fu you only have to solder one wire to the pad on the decoder. My decoders, sound and non sound and stay alives, all come from Digitrains in Lincoln.

Using the Zimo's, stay alive's and modified (that's another story) Peco electrofrog points and code 75 track, I get no stalling. It might sound really complicated, but once you get the hang of it it isn't. There's always plenty of help on here if you need it.

[heda]

Thanks everyone for the input, very informative, I'll go with the MX600R. Having done a bit of 'Google' research I'm pretty sure I can squeeze them in. None of my analogue trains stall at slow speed on the points so hopefully with the little bit of built in stay alive they will be OK at slower speeds.

Dave

[heda]

My MX600R decoders have arrived, I know red and black to the track and orange and grey to the motor. I intend to snip off the connector and hard wire.
The other wires I will cut off but leave a short length (insulated) so that I can connect to them in future if I decide to add lights.

Whats puzzling me is that although the connector is 8 pin there are 9 wires, the 9th being brown.

My question is if I need to add a stay alive am I right in saying I need the blue wire which I think is +V
and does the other wire on the stay alive connect to the pad at the back of the decoder or to the brown wire which as far as I can make out is -V

Dave

[SRman]

My MX600R decoders have arrived, I know red and black to the track and orange and grey to the motor. I intend to snip off the connector and hard wire.
The other wires I will cut off but leave a short length (insulated) so that I can connect to them in future if I decide to add lights.

Whats puzzling me is that although the connector is 8 pin there are 9 wires, the 9th being brown.

My question is if I need to add a stay alive am I right in saying I need the blue wire which I think is +V
and does the other wire on the stay alive connect to the pad at the back of the decoder or to the brown wire which as far as I can make out is -V

Dave

In a word, no.

The blue is the common return for the auxiliary outputs, which includes the yellow, white, green and brown wires in this decoder's case. If you wish to wire a stay alive in, there are pads at the outer end of the decoder that require wires to be soldered to them. The convention is blue and black for the wires, but you'll have to check Zimo's manuals to work out which is which and what the polarities are.