Personally, I favour analogue control for points and sections via MegaPoint Controllers servo edition etc. One of the main reasons for this is the Gaugemaster Prodigy Express doesnt do DCC accessory control and was the reason for purchasing this.
The alternative is DCC accessory control via a Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance or NCE Powercab etc. But what I dont get is, with the MPC (or similar system) and analogue set up, I can have a button next to each point on a mimic panel, press the tit, see the leds change and it works. If I use a handset like the Advance or Powercab etc, Ive got to memorise the location and number of each point so I can call it up on the handset to activate it? Neither do I get the same visual indicator that the point(s) have switched to the position I want them?
Sure, I could have a mimic panel like drawing that identifies the location and possibly the assigned address of the point(s) for me but it smacks of duplication and if I need that, why not stick with the analogue? Using my handset to change points and see if they have moved just seems a lot more long winded and not intuitive.
What am I missing?
DCC accessory control via handset
Re: DCC accessory control via handset
Nothing really. I use dcc but change points/crossings with a mixture of toggle switches and rotary switches. This is with Tortoise motors.
Pete.
Re: DCC accessory control via handset
I am puzzled by this because even my old Lenz Compact which is a basic starter DCC controller from the year 2000 can control 99 points/accessories (Or was it 256?) and it has visual indication of the point being controlled even if it is a bit basic.
To be honest though, I have to say nothing beats a plain and simple stud and probe point control system on a home made mimic diagram display. It is so quick and simple to use, that I can't see why anyone needs anything else unless one wants automated computer control of ones whole layout.
To be honest though, I have to say nothing beats a plain and simple stud and probe point control system on a home made mimic diagram display. It is so quick and simple to use, that I can't see why anyone needs anything else unless one wants automated computer control of ones whole layout.
Modelling On A Budget ---》 https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/F ... 22&t=52212
Re: DCC accessory control via handset
On a larger layout it is often easier to operate the points from a DCC handset than to go all the way to the control panel to do it. Using DCC handsets, especially wireless ones, means you tend to be away from any control panel most of the time and it is then that you see the benefit.
I was quite with the 'Why bother with the handset' school at first, it seemed like a convoluted way of achieving a simple task, but it does become second nature to do it after a while, so much so that it is much quicker than going to the control panel. Some systems will let you fire off macros from the handset and run a sequence of point and signal setting than can save a bit of time.
You might like to make sure that there are strategically placed diagrams with point numbers clearly marked, especially in yard areas where you are most likely to be doing this.
I was quite with the 'Why bother with the handset' school at first, it seemed like a convoluted way of achieving a simple task, but it does become second nature to do it after a while, so much so that it is much quicker than going to the control panel. Some systems will let you fire off macros from the handset and run a sequence of point and signal setting than can save a bit of time.
You might like to make sure that there are strategically placed diagrams with point numbers clearly marked, especially in yard areas where you are most likely to be doing this.
Re: DCC accessory control via handset
I believe that the best scheme at the larger end of the layout range is a mixed economy.
Station and yard movements, where you need to be physically present to operate (and enjoy the stock movements) use whatever 'analogue' scheme appeals, with a 'signal box' of stud and probe, point levers, toggle switches, w.h.y., at the operating position.
Operation on the running lines, automated route setting by whatever means appeals. (DCC is a convenient solution if already in use to run the trains, but I wouldn't consider it otherwise.)
Station and yard movements, where you need to be physically present to operate (and enjoy the stock movements) use whatever 'analogue' scheme appeals, with a 'signal box' of stud and probe, point levers, toggle switches, w.h.y., at the operating position.
Operation on the running lines, automated route setting by whatever means appeals. (DCC is a convenient solution if already in use to run the trains, but I wouldn't consider it otherwise.)
Re: DCC accessory control via handset
The Prodigy Express is a paired down handset aimed as an introduction to DCC or, for those that dont want accessory control directly. When I bought mine, brand new, it was £119. Id previously bought a Hornby Elite 2nd hand for £175. Unfortunately it was faulty so got a refund but even then, it was a bit Sinclair ZX80 operation and I wasnt prepared to shell out the £250ish I think new ones were going for.Mountain wrote:I am puzzled by this because even my old Lenz Compact which is a basic starter DCC controller from the year 2000 can control 99 points/accessories (Or was it 256?) and it has visual indication of the point being controlled even if it is a bit basic.
To be honest though, I have to say nothing beats a plain and simple stud and probe point control system on a home made mimic diagram display. It is so quick and simple to use, that I can't see why anyone needs anything else unless one wants automated computer control of ones whole layout.
Given Gaugemaster has the more expensive Prodigy Advance in its line up to do DCC accessory control, they'd be undercutting themselves if they made the Express with all the bells and whistle (and if leaving some accessory control out, which?). Ergo, why the Express doesnt have accessory functionality.
Yes, I get you're more 'walkabout' with the wifi version but you still presumably need to know the accessory address or have it easily to hand if you're firing off points and signals from the handset. Which is my point, if you're using the handset for accessory control, where's your point of reference located to identify each accessories address or macro?
With a mimic panel, it's just a quick visual reference, train down that road via that set of points, press the button and it's done. You dont have to go that train down that road via that set of points, what's the address or macro, make the selection via button presses.
With the MegaPoints Controllers system, it doesnt matter if you're full DCC, DCC of locos or analogy. BTW, Im not Dave!
Re: DCC accessory control via handset
Sorry. I am lost with the Dave comment. Why are you not Dave?
I think the Lenz Compact was sold for £75 but the transformers were a seperately purchased item. This was because they could double up as a slave controller to either another Lenz Compact, or one of the more advanced Lenz systems. They push out 2.5 amps on their own, but additional boosters can be used. (In comparisson, the top of the range Lenz set 01 which was made in the days when DCC sound was not available pushed out 3 amps, BUT, the set 01 booster was an individual item included in the set. The later top of the range Lenz 100 pushed out 5 amps but it had the booster and the command module part all in one, which I think is a shame as I preferred them to be seperate as one has more options to change things around for ones specific needs... Example, I have a 3 amp booster that came with my set 01, and an additional 5 amp booster. I can run these in series and push out 8 amps, or I can use them in parallel and have two zones, one being 3 amp and the other 5 amp... And if I wanted to, I can take these two boosters and using the Compact as a master controller, have three zones.. The one with the Compact being 2.5 amps, the 3 amps and the 5 amps all in seperate zones...
The old Lenz system was pretty universal like that in that.
Another feature with my handsets when used with the set 01, is that I can set a train to go on a large layout, unplug the handset and it will continue running to its last command. I can walk to the other end of the layout and plug the hand controller in and re-take command of the train. I found this feature marvellous to use. One does not need radio or infra red wireless control. To plug and unplug a controller is all one needs. Of course Lenz did make a wireless handset if I recall correctly (Or was it another make that would work on Lenz systems? I don't remember now. Roco Locomaus was also a system which could share handsets with Lenz, as many found Roco handsets nicer to use but the Lenz system had better features then Rocos as it was more advanced, so people often mixed and matched to get the best from the two).
I am wondering if this can be the same with your Gaugemaster? Can other more advanced handsets be used? Or are you limited to the system not being capable of point control with any handset?
I must admit that I have only tried a few other systems and though they were supposed to be more modern, they were no easier to use then my Lenz other then having a little picture of the loco one has selected... But to be honest, this only really works if one only has a few locos, as if one has a fleet of B.R. blue diesels which all look similar on a tiny screen, it is not really that effective at telling them apart, so one has to go back to remembering the locos address number instead.
(I apologize in advanced because I may be writing a lot of irrevelovent information as I explore my thoughts).
I think the Lenz Compact was sold for £75 but the transformers were a seperately purchased item. This was because they could double up as a slave controller to either another Lenz Compact, or one of the more advanced Lenz systems. They push out 2.5 amps on their own, but additional boosters can be used. (In comparisson, the top of the range Lenz set 01 which was made in the days when DCC sound was not available pushed out 3 amps, BUT, the set 01 booster was an individual item included in the set. The later top of the range Lenz 100 pushed out 5 amps but it had the booster and the command module part all in one, which I think is a shame as I preferred them to be seperate as one has more options to change things around for ones specific needs... Example, I have a 3 amp booster that came with my set 01, and an additional 5 amp booster. I can run these in series and push out 8 amps, or I can use them in parallel and have two zones, one being 3 amp and the other 5 amp... And if I wanted to, I can take these two boosters and using the Compact as a master controller, have three zones.. The one with the Compact being 2.5 amps, the 3 amps and the 5 amps all in seperate zones...
The old Lenz system was pretty universal like that in that.
Another feature with my handsets when used with the set 01, is that I can set a train to go on a large layout, unplug the handset and it will continue running to its last command. I can walk to the other end of the layout and plug the hand controller in and re-take command of the train. I found this feature marvellous to use. One does not need radio or infra red wireless control. To plug and unplug a controller is all one needs. Of course Lenz did make a wireless handset if I recall correctly (Or was it another make that would work on Lenz systems? I don't remember now. Roco Locomaus was also a system which could share handsets with Lenz, as many found Roco handsets nicer to use but the Lenz system had better features then Rocos as it was more advanced, so people often mixed and matched to get the best from the two).
I am wondering if this can be the same with your Gaugemaster? Can other more advanced handsets be used? Or are you limited to the system not being capable of point control with any handset?
I must admit that I have only tried a few other systems and though they were supposed to be more modern, they were no easier to use then my Lenz other then having a little picture of the loco one has selected... But to be honest, this only really works if one only has a few locos, as if one has a fleet of B.R. blue diesels which all look similar on a tiny screen, it is not really that effective at telling them apart, so one has to go back to remembering the locos address number instead.
(I apologize in advanced because I may be writing a lot of irrevelovent information as I explore my thoughts).
Modelling On A Budget ---》 https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/F ... 22&t=52212
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Re: DCC accessory control via handset
I find it quite incredible that some command stations are still being produced in such a backward 'cut down' form that don't even provide basic DCC functionality - functionality which has been available for well over 20 years!
On the topic of using throttles to change turnouts, I guess it depends on what you are trying to achieve.
In a goods yard, where there is no signalling, having a driver changing their own turnouts from their throttle is akin to a real life fireman jumping out and hand-operating a turnout lever. So this is probably a valid use case.
On a passenger main line where signalling and interlocking is compulsory in the prototype world, things become a little different.
If your model layout doesn't have signalling or interlocking on your passenger lines, then it is obviously not being prototypically operated so throttle operation seems like a viable outcome.
Where signalling and interlocking is present on a model layout, throttle operation become highly problematic because you need a schematic of the layout (eg a panel) showing the states of everything. You can't change individual turnouts indescriminately.
On 'Ashprington Road' (http://www.mrol.com.au/Pages/Vu/AshpringtonRoad) I implemented full signalling and interlocking and developed computer software to control it. Turnout and signal changing is done from the computer screen (there's a picture of it further down the above link page).
I have a separate manual panel with switches to change good yard turnouts.
On the topic of using throttles to change turnouts, I guess it depends on what you are trying to achieve.
In a goods yard, where there is no signalling, having a driver changing their own turnouts from their throttle is akin to a real life fireman jumping out and hand-operating a turnout lever. So this is probably a valid use case.
On a passenger main line where signalling and interlocking is compulsory in the prototype world, things become a little different.
If your model layout doesn't have signalling or interlocking on your passenger lines, then it is obviously not being prototypically operated so throttle operation seems like a viable outcome.
Where signalling and interlocking is present on a model layout, throttle operation become highly problematic because you need a schematic of the layout (eg a panel) showing the states of everything. You can't change individual turnouts indescriminately.
On 'Ashprington Road' (http://www.mrol.com.au/Pages/Vu/AshpringtonRoad) I implemented full signalling and interlocking and developed computer software to control it. Turnout and signal changing is done from the computer screen (there's a picture of it further down the above link page).
I have a separate manual panel with switches to change good yard turnouts.