DCC Theoretical Question.

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centenary
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Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:08 pm

Re: DCC Theoretical Question.

Post by centenary »

Bigmet wrote:I am not fussed about the DCC signal structure being ported over to wireless. Forty years of intervening development since DCC got off the ground means there's room for progress there. 'Equivalent and preferably better functionality and performance all around' is the name of the game that I will be attracted to.
Well Im sorry but Mountain raised the question first and I responded to that. You asked further points and I responded to those. The bottom line is modern RC transfers packets of information like DCC. It is mainly the medium that is different ie radio as opposed to direct connection to rails via wire and they're both digital.

It stands to reason laying one successful protocol onto another will cause a further point of failure and level of complexity. On a personal note, I dont see the point using RC which by its nature is no direct connection if people just want to send DCC command via the rails. There's already a very good methodology to do that readily available that doesnt add another layer of complexity. That's DCC.
'Wireless' BTW doesn't 'add value' or compensate for shortcomings, it's just another signal transmission utility, nothing special. That's something that clouds the vision of those marketing wireless control systems - I don't care about 'how', just that the performance in my hands is at minimum equal, and preferably superior, to previously available control systems.
centenary wrote:...To be honest, there isn't a lot of difference as I see it between 2.4ghz DMSS RC and DCC as a control methodology. My transmitter and receiver combo has a 30 model memory. Not many people have 30 models and some systems can accommodate more.
That's heading in the right direction, but I believe those who are keen on railway modelling typically end up with many more than 30 locos, (they don't crash and burn y'see) and we want everything in the way of capability we have already from DCC. Please name any brands that currently have the greatest capability in your opinion.
Yes but this is where I mentioned other things muddying the waters especially the more you delve into things. Most people using RC dont have 30 models never mind more and find that ample. My JR XG12 can also hold many more models via a separate internal SD card. Top end RC transmitters like Futaba's £2500 32MZ transmitter has a 250 model memory but how many people need that or are going to pay it? Again, if people want to use RC functionality, they'll end up having to pay for it and why pay twice for something that's readily available?

Its a sad fact of life that more complexity, model memory and functions increases the price of RC gear. While very basic stuff can be had for as little as 30 quid, for that, you're only getting 3 control channels.

Myself for quality RC equipment, Id recommend Jeti, Futaba, JR Propo and Spektrum. As Ive said, these brands come with premium prices (you're talking minimum £600), you'll still be stuck with 30 model memory or thereabouts and need someone to come up with a DCC to RC interface when all said and done.
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Mountain
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Re: DCC Theoretical Question.

Post by Mountain »

BananaRepublic wrote:
Mountain wrote:Question.
....Is it possible in theory, to have a radio control interface that allows one to use a DCC controller to power trains via radio control that does not use track power, but the trains have onboard batteries?

In other words, one can use radio control through ones standard DCC controller.
Would such an interface be possible....
........I was wondering if such technology exists or would be possible?
[quote="centenary"....I'm not aware of any DCC to RC control interface......
Mountain wrote:.........I have never heard of such a device and I was wondering if one has been built or if it is possible in theory. ....

Hi Mountain.
What you are asking about has been commercially available for 20 years or more in various guises.
DCC commands delivered wirelessly, direct to the loco and received by onboard electronics that feed regular DCC commands to a decoder.
Motive power provided by onboard batteries.

The company who have been providing this kit the longest, is US company CVP, makers of an American DCC system called Easy-DCC.
Their AirWire systems have been available in various versions for a long time, but these are only sold in North America, use radio bands not approved for use in the UK or Europe...and are aimed at larger scale models.

US DCC manufacturer NCE, used to sell a wireless DCC system called G-Wire, which used wireless handsets similar to their own ProCab and PowerCab handsets.
This again was aimed at larger scale outdoor layouts.
I believe that G-Wire is also compatible with the CVP AirWire system
NCE stopped selling G-Wire about 10 years ago or so.


Another way to obtain "wireless" or "radio" DCC, is a product made by Tam Valley Depot, who are best known for their range of "Frog Juicers".
Tam Valley's DRS-1 system. (Dead Rail System), is rather ingenious.
It isn't a control system itself, but an add-on to ANY DCC system, that provides wireless transmission of DCC signals, direct to a receiver in your loco.
DRS-1 consists of a transmitter module that attaches to your DCC system's track output and an onboard receiver board that goes in your loco.
There are no configuration settings or anything like that and the only limitations on how many locos can be controlled at once, are the same as for the host DCC system you are using.

The transmitter unit is simply connected to the DCC track output of any DCC system.
This module wirelessly broadcasts all the DCC commands being output from your DCC system.

The receivers in the locos are connected to the onboard batteries and feed the combined battery power and received DCC signals, to any regular DCC loco decoder .
The DCC decoder can be any sound or non-sound of your choosing.

Tam Valley make a European (inc. UK) legal version of this system.
The only downside, apart from the extra cost per loco, is having space to fit the onboard receiver and battery, so it would be quite difficult to fit this in a 00 or H0 scale loco, unless the additional kit is located in a tender, or attached wagon or carriage.


z[/quote]

This seems most impressive!
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centenary
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Re: DCC Theoretical Question.

Post by centenary »

Mountain wrote: Their AirWire systems have been available in various versions for a long time, but these are only sold in North America, use radio bands not approved for use in the UK or Europe...and are aimed at larger scale models.

Tam Valley make a European (inc. UK) legal version of this system.
The only downside, apart from the extra cost per loco, is having space to fit the onboard receiver and battery, so it would be quite difficult to fit this in a 00 or H0 scale loco, unless the additional kit is located in a tender, or attached wagon or carriage.

This seems most impressive!
Like I said, an interface should be possible. But, there's that muddying of the water again! RC frequencies and power output need to be legal for use in the UK, presuming the end user is UK based.

Then you have the size issue. We've also gone back to wireless DCC rather than DCC to RC but hey ho!
Bigmet
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Re: DCC Theoretical Question.

Post by Bigmet »

centenary wrote:...Myself for quality RC equipment, Id recommend Jeti, Futaba, JR Propo and Spektrum. As Ive said, these brands come with premium prices (you're talking minimum £600), you'll still be stuck with 30 model memory or thereabouts ...
Thank you so much for this information. I'll keep watching developments.
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