Prodigy sounds stuck on

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JohnDisdle
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Prodigy sounds stuck on

Postby JohnDisdle » Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:31 pm

I have my nice new prodigy 2 working, but now I can't turn off he loco sounds. The manual is not the best, when it comes to explaining this.
F1 switches steam sound on, and should turn it off. I tried other sounds including birds, and safety valve, but they don't want to stop... I don't know what i've done....

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Flashbang
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Re: Prodigy sounds stuck on

Postby Flashbang » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:55 pm

oh dear you do have DCC problems :D :o

Indeed, normally F1 turns the sounds On and Off but you need to check the decoder installed. Was the loco supplied new with sound fitted? If so what loco - Make and type is it??

On the PA2 screen in the top lefthand corner it shows which F1 to F8 buttons you have On. If F1 is displayed then with the loco correctly set (its address is displayed on the handset, and that is the locos address) press the 1 key You should see the F1 disappear on the screen F9 and above are shown on the bottom of the screen (See my image attached) My Red arrow is where F1 to F8 appear in that line. My Blue arrow is where the higher Function numbers appear.
Function On display.JPG
Function On display.JPG (18.52 KiB) Viewed 806 times


Mod Note: Post moved to the DCC forum section.
[Image << Click the Icon to go to my website
Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.

JohnDisdle
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Re: Prodigy sounds stuck on

Postby JohnDisdle » Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:30 pm

Hi Flashbang.
Thanks again. I seem to have a problem again.
The loco is an Ajax supplied by Olivers Trains about two years ago. it's fitted with ESU sound and works very nicely.
Now it will run, or sit on track, and I just have one sound repeating about every 30 seconds of, I think the safety valve. F1 does nothing for it, but steam sound can be turned on and off with F1. I have looked at the manual, and there is nothing about sound, or a master reset. I does say disconnect the handset, which I have done. When I replace it, F1 is on, and the loco gives a whistle. Pressing F1 does nothing except remove it from the display. I hope this makes sense to you, because i'm getting lost...!

Sorry for posting in the wrong place, tanks for moving it.

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Flashbang
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Re: Prodigy sounds stuck on

Postby Flashbang » Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:34 pm

Hi
You need to look at the sound decoder manual to see what F key does what.
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Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.

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Forfarian
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Re: Prodigy sounds stuck on

Postby Forfarian » Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:55 pm

This is the O&M for ESU locksound V4
Pages 50-51 give the CV settings.
I hope this helps, I have V4 & V5 of these sound decoders and never had any problems.
http://www.esu.eu/uploads/tx_esudownloa ... ook_02.pdf
Tim
aka Forfarian

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Ironduke
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Re: Prodigy sounds stuck on

Postby Ironduke » Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:06 pm

All Sound on/off is F8
Regards
Rob

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Re: Prodigy sounds stuck on

Postby mjb1961 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:14 am

Hi john,,I was having this problem yesterday with my Dapol black label,I have the MRC prodigy advance 2 which is the same as yours,I had to switch it off at the mains ,and this happened at least half a dozen times ,I was replacing some track at the time which was not fixed down properly so I put it down to 'corrupt ' signal ,later on when I had actually fixed the track down and fitted some new fishplates it was ok ,I know this isn't much use to you but thought I would share my experience with you ,give everything a good check over and a clean and go from there ,,mjb

Bigmet
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Re: Prodigy sounds stuck on

Postby Bigmet » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:25 am

The trouble you have been seeing with two different DCC systems suggests to me that something on the layout is a likely cause.

Are you prepared to connect your DCC system to a plain length of track only, with no connections of any sort to the layout, and then test a loco on that?

If that works exactly as you expect, then you will have evidence that it is the interaction with the layout that is the problem. Which may be disappointing, but does at least tell you where the work needs to be done.

JohnDisdle
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Re: Prodigy sounds stuck on

Postby JohnDisdle » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:03 am

Hi Forfarian. Ironduke and mjb1961.

Thanks for the ESU info, that is very useful.
All sound off =F8. F8 is also the loco address, on mine F1 is steam sound off, or is this in program mode?
This sound problem still will not go away. I have gone through programming to where it says CV. I press shift then 63 which according to the instructions with my loco, is overall volume. I can see “DATA” on the screen, but nothing has happened on the last ten mins.
Yes, we have volts on the program track, but not on the main this morning. It was fine yesterday morning, then died in the afternoon.

I spent all yesterday, removing a siding, and inserting insulated joiners. I then wired a DPDT switch to select either program, or main track. I am very slow these days, shaking hands and soldering do not go well together.
Having spent most of my life in the servicing trade, first Tv's and later as a broadcast engineer, I know an intermittent fault when I see one. And both the EZ Command,and now the prodigy has a good one each.
My track has worked without problems for three years.

I have two options. The shop takes it back for a refund, and see if they can find something else.
I e-mail Gaugemaster with a list of what is happening. I shall then have to post it off at several £££s.

I am now totally fed up with trying, and getting nowhere.

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Roger (RJ)
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Re: Prodigy sounds stuck on

Postby Roger (RJ) » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:45 am

JohnDisdle wrote:Hi Forfarian. Ironduke and mjb1961.

I have gone through programming to where it says CV. I press shift then 63 which according to the instructions with my loco, is overall volume. I can see “DATA” on the screen, but nothing has happened on the last ten mins.



Doesn't this mean that it's waiting for you to enter a value into CV63?

JohnDisdle
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Re: Prodigy sounds stuck on

Postby JohnDisdle » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:41 am

Hi Roger (RJ).

Would it be expecting a number between 0 and 128 for overall volume?
I can't do anything now, after pressing prog, I gave it address 8, but it is now 9, and cannot be changed.
Main track is still dead. This has to go back for a refund.

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Flashbang
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Re: Prodigy sounds stuck on

Postby Flashbang » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:48 am

Hi

You’re really not understanding the issues. You have a very advance DCC control system. Unlike the Bachmann EZ DCC system which is extremely basic.

Functions called "F" numbers are in the range F1 to F28 they are not loco address numbers. They are a separate numbering system used by the decoder and DCC system. They have nothing to do with the locos address numbering, though you need to have selected the correct loco number to be able to communicate with that loco’s decoder.
Leaving the PA at a Data screen won’t do anything, It needs to be moved on to be able to read or write to the the decoder. Think of it as you have a bicycle. You get it out (plug in the PA) You sit on your bikes saddle (You set the loco address on the PA to be controlled) but until you do something else like turn the Pedals the bike won’t move. So the PA display showing Data won’t move on either.

Now to teach you to such eggs possibly? But I feel all the below needs to be read and understood in full.

Each loco that has a DCC decoder fitted (or a decoder on its own), as supplied new, are all at a default address number of 3 (Why 3? I have no idea neither have most other people, but 03 or 3 is used [03 and 3 are the same!]) Its normal practice once a loco has been proven to work correctly on the default address number to change it to something else. Otherwise, if left at 3 and you obtain a second loco which will also have address 3 when both new the two locos would move together when loco 3 address is selected! So normally you use the programming feature and change the loco address to whatever you choose, but not 0 (zero). The PA2 can address a loco in the range 1 to 9999. So plenty of choice. Note some older decoders may not be able to be given address number above 128, but these today are very much outdated and AFAIK all new decoders can have 1 to 9999 address numbers.

Now, much like your PC keyboard you have to use the Enter key to move on or send an command to the locos decoder. Also, again like you PC keyboard some keys have dual features which are selected by one or more keys e.g "Shift" key on the PA changes the meaning of keys.

I will cover one very basic command on the PA which you can do. But firstly, let’s make sure the PA is set up correctly .... The selection switch on the base station should be set to the Cab 1 to 8 position. Plug the handset cable into the left-hand socket on the front of the base station marked “Controllers’. Turn on the power and the Pilot LED should illuminate on the base station. Assuming all is correct then…
For a start we will check the loco works and then change the locos address number (Technically changing CV1). I'll assume the loco is at default address number of 03. On the PA Press "Loco" button and four horizontal lines appear, press 3 key then the “Enter” key. The locos address number will appear on the screen as “Loco 0003” .
Turn up the speed knob and the loco will move off in the direction set. To make it go in reverse stop the loco and press Direction button. It will then move in the opposite direction when the speed knob is turned up. Press the button marked as “SPD STEP” once, the display will show "SPd 14" This is the lowest speed step setting. 14 is really not used today, so press "SPD STEP" once more and the display will show 28. Now press "Enter" then test the loco. Note the control of speed is quite course as there are only 28 positions of speed between stop and its maximum top speed. Hence 28! Stop loco and now press "SPD STEP" button once more, the display will change to "128". Press "Enter" to accept this setting. Now test the loco and note how much more controllable it has become and you have much more finer control over its speed, as you now have 128 steps of speed available. Leave it at either 28 or 128 for the time being. Don’t forget to press the ENTER button to select that choice. Stop loco and….

Place loco on the dedicated and totally separate Programming track. Press “PROG” The display will change to Prog and in smaller text “Prog Track”. As you’re wishing to programme the loco on the Programming track press "Enter" once. A series of four lines appear flashing on and off with "Adr" underneath. Using the keyboard enter a new address number - Lets say 55, but can be any you want, but not 0. Once the display shows the new number _ _ 55 press "Enter". Display shows “Send” and the Link LED should flicker on the base unit momentarily. The loco may be seen to move very slightly. The Display will now show “SV” and three lines, Press Enter to move on to the next display which is “Acc” and three lines, again press Enter then “dEc” and three lines, Press “Enter” now and “TV” is displayed and three lines, Press “Enter” and finally “CV” is shown with three lines Press Enter The display now shows Loco 55

Place the loco back onto the main lines and ensure the display shows Loco 0055. Test loco under the new address. It should operate normally, but only when loco 0055 is displayed on the screen.
You have have reprogrammed your loco to address number 55. You can do it all again to another address if wished.

Now with the locos address number displayed correctly, pressing a keypad number button between 1 and 8 the display will show F1 to F8 depending on which button has been pressed. To turn Off that Function press the number button again e.g. Press 1 and F1 appears and normally on a sound loco this will turn On the sounds, often after a few seconds gap as some sounds have start up sequences which can be very quiet. Once the sounds are On pressing the 1 button again turns Off that Function and “F1” will no long shown on the screen. Note F2 is not normally a Latching key, its Momentary, so pressing it will send the F2 command and the associated sound will play and then stop. Pressing the 2 key again turns Off that feature and the F2 symbol goes out. You would then need to repress the 2 key again to make that sound again, i.e. On-Off-On of the key Other Function keys are Locking in that the sound or output they operate remains active all the while the F key is active Only pressing the number key again turns off that Function. A typical Latching key in F0 which is usually head and tail lights On/Off

All Functions are set my the decoder manufacturer as to what they will operate So on a none sound standard four Function decoder F0 turns On or Off the Head and Tail lights with are usually automatically switch around aby the direction of travel. F1 powers the Green Function wire and F2 the Purple Function wire. What these are connected to depends on the loco. Often Cab lights or Firebox flicker etc but again it depends on what the loco and decoder have been set.

The Master Volume control (Maximum volume) is frequently controlled by CV63. So setting a value in CV63 will either increase or reduce it, so a lower value number will turn down the maximum sound level. What the maximum value number is will depend on the decoder and you need to reference the leaflet for that decoder. This is only the volume control maximum setting, it is not Sounds On / Off. Think of it like your TV. You set the maximum volume and it should always remain there. But to turn Off the sound you don't normally reduce the volume setting, instead you use the Mute button. Now what that 'Mute' button is on your loco can be F1 or as someone suggested it may be F8? Try them to see. :D
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Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.

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Flashbang
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Re: Prodigy sounds stuck on

Postby Flashbang » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:32 pm

JohnDisdle wrote:Hi Forfarian. Ironduke and mjb1961.

Thanks for the ESU info, that is very useful.
All sound off =F8. F8 is also the loco address, No its not! on mine F1 is steam sound off, or is this in program mode? No, Its on the main track and the loco address number showing, nothing to do with Programming.
This sound problem still will not go away. I have gone through programming to where it says CV. I press shift then 63 which according to the instructions with my loco, is overall volume. I can see “DATA” on the screen, but nothing has happened on the last ten mins. See my reply in my last message above.
Yes, we have volts on the program track, but not on the main this morning. It was fine yesterday morning, then died in the afternoon. Check your DPDT switch, it reads as though you have the switch (mentioned below) reversed! Or the PA2 is in Programming mode.
I spent all yesterday, removing a siding, and inserting insulated joiners. I then wired a DPDT switch to select either program, or main track. I am very slow these days, shaking hands and soldering do not go well together. If using a switch it should be a On-Off-On type, not a On-On version The Off allows a clean break before make .
Having spent most of my life in the servicing trade, first Tv's and later as a broadcast engineer, I know an intermittent fault when I see one. I seriously doubt that both the EZ Command, and now the Prodigy Advanced 2 has the same defects! I find it very strange that a Bachmann EZ was sent back to Bachmann and returned as No Fault Found. You then obtained a Gaugemaster PA2 and that was faulty too,https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=55799 so you returned that and either it was replaced or returned as No Fault Found. So two totally separate DCC systems both allegedly not working, but you're convinced its not your layout, or its wiring or a defective loco. Hmmm!
My track has worked without problems for three years. Doesn't mean there isn't a defect somewhere. A loco problem is one, Something shorting across the rails somewhere is another common problem. A closed up gap that acts as an insulator in a rail is another common one too.

I have two options. The shop takes it back for a refund, and see if they can find something else. Suggest the Hornby Select. It now quite good when obtained at software version 1.6 or 2.0. But do ensure its at that version.
I e-mail Gaugemaster with a list of what is happening. I shall then have to post it off at several £££s.

I am now totally fed up with trying, and getting nowhere.

Sorry I have replied next to your text as it was easier to point out possible issues.. :D

Question... Do you only have one DCC Loco? If you have others then remove them all, If the fault is present with all locos removed then the issue is around your layout or its wiring. If all is clear with no locos then test each loco in turn... Turn off DCC and place one loco on main line rails and power up system. Can you move and control that loco correctly or is there a fault? If Yes it works, then the fault is possibly with another loco. Remove the tested loco and place another loco on the rails and test that and so on until you find one that causes the problem. :D
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Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.

Dad-1
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Re: Prodigy sounds stuck on

Postby Dad-1 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:48 pm

A question
Where are you ?

Just a shot in the dark, but sometimes we have members is an area who may be prepared to come over
and find out quite why you're having so much trouble. Sorry but I can't believe that two systems failed,
particularly when they have both been checked by the suppliers and no fault found.

I for example, spent several afternoons at The Nothe Fort, Weymouth, solving some problems they had
after changing some equipment. Once understood it was easy to fix by simply changing the voltage to
a timer switching set. It was 18 miles each way from home, so tell us, you never know !!

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

JohnDisdle
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Re: Prodigy sounds stuck on

Postby JohnDisdle » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:56 am

Thanks Flashband and Dad-1.
I only have one DCC sound fitted loco. My 08 shunter is still with Hornby for repair. I hope to get it back by Christmas...

Checked everything again, and all ok. I could only use the program track, as there is still no volts on the main.
By the end of yesterday, I had packed it back in the box, and e-mailed Great Eastern Models. They have replied, and will exchange the Prodigy for a new one from stock.
Hopefully the end to my problems, as lightning cannot strike twice in the same place – so they say...


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