Trains Stationary!!

Post all your DCC only problems, solutions and discoverys here.
User avatar
CandO
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:53 pm

Trains Stationary!!

Postby CandO » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:57 pm

Hi. Finally got my track connected to give me a full loop so tested it with a Jinty. Programmed an address for it and off it went non-stop for an hour to get it run in a little. I have three other engines so thought I'd program them in to the controller and give them all an hour runtime. All the engines are new and never been run but when I repeated the track programming routine to give the engines an address on the controller they won't move! You hear them make a noise when the address is given and when the power is on it sounds like they are just idling but none of them will move forwards or backwards. Would be grateful for any ideas as to why this may be folks?? I'm at a loss :cry:

I'm on N gauge, Graham Farish engines and EZ controller if that helps :)

Cheers!

Mod Note: Topic moved to the DCC forum.

User avatar
End2end
Posts: 5164
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Trains Stationary!!

Postby End2end » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:37 pm

From what I understand you should really run in new loco's on DC first to show up any problems with any new loco.
Beyond that, (obviously with a EZ command you don't have the ability as far as I remember to use a programming track) did you have more than one loco on the track at the same time when programming? You may have inadvertently programmed ALL loco's to the new number/address. :?
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
CandO
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:53 pm

Re: Trains Stationary!!

Postby CandO » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:44 pm

I removed the Jinty back to its box before getting the next loco out.... I thought the first may have been faulty but when the other two did the same I knew summat was up. I tried the Jinty again after on its programmed address and it worked fine again!! Thanks anyhow pal

User avatar
End2end
Posts: 5164
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Trains Stationary!!

Postby End2end » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:19 pm

Can I ask for a little more information please CandO?
Are all the loco's DCC ready or come with DCC installed by the manufacturer?
What are the decoders if you know?

Have you tried resetting them one by one to 3 then readdress?

A simple mistake is putting the decoders in the wrong way round. Have you checked all loco's that the decoders sited the correct way round?
That's all I can think of at the moment.
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
Ironduke
Posts: 1174
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:04 am
Location: Ballarat Victoria Australia
Contact:

Re: Trains Stationary!!

Postby Ironduke » Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:12 am

Unfortunately there's no way to reset the decoders to default with the basic E-Z command controller. Also I suppose none of the locos have lights so you can't even check if the functions work, which would at least let you know the address is correct.
Do you have a friend with a DCC system that can program CVs? If so, get them to reset the decoders of the trains that aren't running.
Regards
Rob

User avatar
End2end
Posts: 5164
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Trains Stationary!!

Postby End2end » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:10 am

Ironduke wrote:Unfortunately there's no way to reset the decoders to default with the basic E-Z command controller.

Ahh yes of course. A kind member here reset my decoders for me. It's been a while since I had the EZ Command.

My next port of call (once the earlier options have been tried) is, Have you cleaned the track for optimum pick up CandO?
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

Bigmet
Posts: 8241
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Trains Stationary!!

Postby Bigmet » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:44 pm

CandO wrote:Finally got my track connected to give me a full loop so tested it with a Jinty. Programmed an address for it and off it went non-stop for an hour to get it run in a little. I have three other engines so thought I'd program them in to the controller and give them all an hour runtime. All the engines are new and never been run but when I repeated the track programming routine to give the engines an address on the controller they won't move! You hear them make a noise when the address is given and when the power is on it sounds like they are just idling but none of them will move forwards or backwards...

So you know the DCC system works with your Jinty.

The three loco that have never been run, made a noise when programming and just buzz when on DCC power. That's exactly the description of what happens if there is no decoder installed. Whatever you do, don't put them on DCC power until you have opened each of them to check if a DCC decoder is installed; my guess is that you will not find any decoders.

But if I am wrong in that guess and there are decoders installed, then it suggests that the mechanisms are gummed solid with dried up lubricant. It only takes a few years in storage for this to happen on Ngauge mechanisms. I would sort that out with the DCC decoders removed, using a DC controller.

If you don't have a DC controller, you can test that the mechanisms run as you get them freed up with a PP9 battery.

User avatar
CandO
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:53 pm

Re: Trains Stationary!!

Postby CandO » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:56 pm

Thanks for all the replies guys - I must admit I'm not at all familiar with all this DC/DCC Enabled/Ready malarky but I'm sure I'll get there ! :D

The first pics are about the Jinty...It was a boxset starter train and this is on the front of the box....
box.jpg
box


....so I assumed it was all ready to go in DCC.....However I've just re-read the instructions and saw this....
fitting.jpg
instructions


.....which led me to discover this....
chip.jpg
chip


So I am now assuming that I've been running the Jinty in DC and I need to fit the chip to convert to DCC. Would that be logical??

My other locos are labelled like this ....
others.jpg
rest


.....and DO NOT have any chips in the packaging so I am presuming they are already DCC and ready to go which was why they didn't move as the track had been programmed to the DC Jinty. :?

Like I said any advice and/or confirmation/decrying of my findings will be appreciated greatly.

Cheers guys!

User avatar
CandO
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:53 pm

Re: Trains Stationary!!

Postby CandO » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:02 pm

Ironduke wrote:Unfortunately there's no way to reset the decoders to default with the basic E-Z command controller. Also I suppose none of the locos have lights so you can't even check if the functions work, which would at least let you know the address is correct.
Do you have a friend with a DCC system that can program CVs? If so, get them to reset the decoders of the trains that aren't running.

I'm totally alone with this Ironduke, no friends play trains :D
Thanks for the comment on the EZ controller though....Going forward I've been looking at the RocoZ21 - do you think it would be better investing sooner rather than later?

User avatar
CandO
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:53 pm

Re: Trains Stationary!!

Postby CandO » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:13 pm

Bigmet wrote:
The three loco that have never been run, made a noise when programming and just buzz when on DCC power. That's exactly the description of what happens if there is no decoder installed. Whatever you do, don't put them on DCC power until you have opened each of them to check if a DCC decoder is installed; my guess is that you will not find any decoders.

Hmmmm....that sounds ominous, I bought them as being all set up for DCC iirc :?

But if I am wrong in that guess and there are decoders installed, then it suggests that the mechanisms are gummed solid with dried up lubricant. It only takes a few years in storage for this to happen on Ngauge mechanisms. I would sort that out with the DCC decoders removed, using a DC controller.

So if I remove the chips (providing they are installed!) they should go??

User avatar
Roger (RJ)
Posts: 1499
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 2:59 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK.

Re: Trains Stationary!!

Postby Roger (RJ) » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:18 pm

CandO wrote:So if I remove the chips (providing they are installed!) they should go??


No. If you remove a decoder then you must fit a blanking plug instead to allow it to run on dc.

Bigmet
Posts: 8241
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Trains Stationary!!

Postby Bigmet » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:46 pm

Your Jinty is described as 'DCC on board': that means a DCC decoder is installed on the loco. The little plug with the two copper windings on it that you photographed is the blanking plug, which substitutes for the decoder if you wanted to run the loco on DC without it. (Never bought a Bachmann loco with an installed decoder - 'DCC fitted' or 'DCC onboard' - so didn't know they provided a blanking plug in the box with these. Learn something new everyday.

Your other three locos I reckon are 'DCC ready', there is a socket to take a decoder, but as supplied it is only fit to run on DC, the blanking plugs are in those sockets. (A fair number of railway modellers thought that 'DCC ready' was a poor term that would cause confusion. Something like 'DCC socket installed to take the decoder of your choice to enable DCC operation' would have been a better choice.)

User avatar
CandO
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:53 pm

Re: Trains Stationary!!

Postby CandO » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:03 pm

Bigmet wrote:Your Jinty is described as 'DCC on board': that means a DCC decoder is installed on the loco. The little plug with the two copper windings on it that you photographed is the blanking plug, which substitutes for the decoder if you wanted to run the loco on DC without it. (Never bought a Bachmann loco with an installed decoder - 'DCC fitted' or 'DCC onboard' - so didn't know they provided a blanking plug in the box with these. Learn something new everyday.

Your other three locos I reckon are 'DCC ready', there is a socket to take a decoder, but as supplied it is only fit to run on DC, the blanking plugs are in those sockets. (A fair number of railway modellers thought that 'DCC ready' was a poor term that would cause confusion. Something like 'DCC socket installed to take the decoder of your choice to enable DCC operation' would have been a better choice.)


So I need to buy three decoders then Bigmet? :shock:

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 12860
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Trains Stationary!!

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:29 pm

I think Bigmet has got the measure of the problem, you have successfully programmed the Jinty. The other two locos are DC or DCC ready. The difference is a DC has no provision for a decoder and installing one means wiring in a harness into which the decoder is fitted. A DCC ready loco is a DC loco with the wiring already installed but fitted with a blanking plug to run on DC.
The DCC system includes provision to run one DC loco at any time, called address 0, it does it by shifting it's AC waveform to be more positive or more negative depending on the direction selected. Unfortunately if you don't set the loco to move it balances the waveform, its normal state, so that there's equal negative and positive, this is the noise the loco makes when it's not moving. If you leave a loco in that condition for long one of two things will happen, lots of blue smoke will come out of the loco and it will run no more, or if it is fitted with a "coreless" motor, it will try to turn first one way then the other fifty times a second untill the coreless windings lacking a big iron core to support them will shake themselves to bits. In either case an unfortunate situation that the manufacturers don't mention.
Open up your non running locos and decide what they are,:-
No sign of a socket - DC
Empty socket DC or blanking plug, like the one in the photo DCC ready.
If one of them has an empty socket there, some good news, attempting to program it will have done it no harm! The power will have got no further than the empty socket.
As ever Bigmet speaks words of wisdom.o
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

User avatar
Ironduke
Posts: 1174
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:04 am
Location: Ballarat Victoria Australia
Contact:

Re: Trains Stationary!!

Postby Ironduke » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:32 pm

I would automatically assume from the packaging that all of those locos have DCC on-board. Open one up and take a photo.

If the loco does not have a decoder installed it will make a very distinctive sound - a sharp 10khz singing noise. Don't worry too much about leaving a analogue loco on a DCC track for very short periods.

Generally it's a good idea to first test that a new locomotive runs on address 3 before you change anything.

I find the US version of the manual a bit easier to read.

CandO wrote:Going forward I've been looking at the RocoZ21 - do you think it would be better investing sooner rather than later?


That looks pretty good. If you intend to really go for it and have the money, and can't find any bad reviews, then do it.
Regards
Rob


Return to “DCC Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests