Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M (which DCC Chip)

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Tom@Crewe
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Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M (which DCC Chip)

Postby Tom@Crewe » Sun May 24, 2020 7:39 am

My Dad got this as a starter to his railway (Before I could talk him out of it) - Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M

We want to fit Stay Alive to it But I cant Identify the loco Part Numbers or the DCC chips use on them.

Can anyone help please?

MOD Note: Topic and all posts moved to the DCC section of the forum where it should attract more replies.
Never enough time...........

mjb1961
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Re: Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M (which DCC Chip)

Postby mjb1961 » Sun May 24, 2020 8:19 am

Hi,,,the chips used in them will without doubt be hornby and I would say the r8249..

Tom@Crewe
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Re: Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M (which DCC Chip)

Postby Tom@Crewe » Sun May 24, 2020 8:32 am

I cant disagree as I don't know that's why I ask.

But the R8249 is 8 pin, the one in the loco has 4 pin connection but is it the same chip?
Never enough time...........

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Roger (RJ)
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Re: Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M (which DCC Chip)

Postby Roger (RJ) » Sun May 24, 2020 8:35 am

These use the R7274 decoder. It's the same as the R8249 decoder but it only has a (non standard) 4 pin plug and socket.

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Mountain
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Re: Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M (which DCC Chip)

Postby Mountain » Sun May 24, 2020 11:55 am

Not wanting to confuse things, as I am a little out of date with modern DCC as I stopped buying DCC about a decade ago... But doesn't stay alive need to have a decoder that works with the stay alive gadget? (So one may need to get a suitable decoder that can be used with stay alive if one wants to go down that route. One needs to work out how much space there is in the loco for the decoder and the stay alive part. Also, one may need to adapt the wiring to either bypass the 4 pin plug system or make use of it. (I have not yet seen the 4 pin plug system to know if 4 pin decoders have wires or if they are plugged directly to the socket as I have been a little out of touch the last few years).
The 4 pin system will be the basic 4 wires... Two to the motor and two to the pickups that touch the wheels.

Remember this rhyme if you ever need to hard wire a decoder as decoders often have coloured wires.

Red and black, to the track.
Orange and grey, the other way... (To the motor).

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Ironduke
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Re: Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M (which DCC Chip)

Postby Ironduke » Sun May 24, 2020 10:58 pm

Mountain wrote:But doesn't stay alive need to have a decoder that works with the stay alive gadget? (So one may need to get a suitable decoder that can be used with stay alive if one wants to go down that route.


Yes. I'm pretty sure you can't just add a capacitor to a Hornby decoder. DCC concepts sell the Zimo decoder with stay-alive.

Have you tried any other (better) locomotives on the track to see if they run better?
Regards
Rob

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Roger (RJ)
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Re: Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M (which DCC Chip)

Postby Roger (RJ) » Sun May 24, 2020 11:12 pm

It is quite possible to add a stay alive to the R8249 or R7274 decoder if you are handy with a fine tipped soldering iron.
A capacitor on its own isn't a stay alive, it needs a couple of extra components as well.

Tom@Crewe
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Re: Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M (which DCC Chip)

Postby Tom@Crewe » Mon May 25, 2020 8:27 am

"Have you tried any other (better) locomotives on the track to see if they run better?"

Yes we tried my bachmann jinty and it runs perfectly
Never enough time...........

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Mountain
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Re: Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M (which DCC Chip)

Postby Mountain » Mon May 25, 2020 1:48 pm

Before going doen the stay alive route, if the loco goes and then stops with the acceleration slowly starting up again... Have you tried turning off the settings for inertia and back EMF etc? As sometimes, unless the loco has lots of pickups, a slight interuption which would not even be noticed when running on DC will cause the loco to stall, and then start from zero again as if the loco was stationary. Turning off these settings on the decoder will solve this issue and make it into an ordinary controllable loco.
It is nice to have these extra features on decoders, but they can be a problem on some locos. Of course, adding "Stay alive" will also solve this issue, but one needn't spend out on stay alive if one just wants ones loco to run hastle free.

It is just an idea.

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Re: Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M (which DCC Chip)

Postby Bigmet » Tue May 26, 2020 9:25 am

Do these antiquated mechanisms still have traction tyres? If so remove them, so that you stand a chance of one wheel each side picking up at all times. If this 'fix' is still available it may improve matters sufficiently to remove the need for 'stay alive'.

Tom@Crewe wrote:My Dad got this as a starter to his railway (Before I could talk him out of it) - Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M...
It really is past time that Hornby stopped selling this old tat, which cannot enhance their reputation. A combo of their Sentinel and Terrier would be vastly superior. Problem is that their financial position probably makes selling something better at a loss-leader price impossible.

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Bigglesof266
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Re: Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M (which DCC Chip)

Postby Bigglesof266 » Tue May 26, 2020 6:14 pm

Bigmet wrote:It really is past time that Hornby stopped selling this old tat, which cannot enhance their reputation.

This.

Seriously, while I comprehend the perception of promise and appeal of the easily sold Mixed Goods DCC bigger pie to those who haven't tasted it -I fell for it myself years ago, Hornby really should ditch this abysmally running starter set bait.

Even if price point sensitivity is an understandably important factor, a far better proposition selling to newbs would be a single current Class 08 or <insert similar fine running steam variant> and wagons if only for the running properties of the traction unit OOTB.

I really wouldn't bother with stay alives for those ancient mechs. They won't end the running frustrations.

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Ironduke
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Re: Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M (which DCC Chip)

Postby Ironduke » Tue May 26, 2020 11:24 pm

Bigglesof266 wrote:I really wouldn't bother with stay alives for those ancient mechs. They won't end the running frustrations.


Exactly. Good money after bad.
Regards
Rob

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Bigglesof266
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Re: Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M (which DCC Chip)

Postby Bigglesof266 » Wed May 27, 2020 5:13 am

Roger (RJ) wrote:These use the R7274 decoder. It's the same as the R8249 decoder but it only has a (non standard) 4 pin plug and socket.

IDK why Hornby do this?!!!! It's inane.

Although more than a decade ago now, I experienced the same nonsense with the Railway Class 08 and 'Jinty' from my Mixed Goods set. The decoders were in fact R8249 chips, but with a 4 pin proprietary connection as Roger said, and without numerical identification. The Fitted Pendolino I bought around the same time was SMT hardwired with an R8215, the R8249's predecessor instead of just using the standard PCB with 8 pin connector which was installed in the DCC Ready versions. That PCB was a standard part which would fit into either, and available as a Hornby spare, so why?!!

Bigmet
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Re: Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M (which DCC Chip)

Postby Bigmet » Wed May 27, 2020 9:55 am

Bigglesof266 wrote:
Roger (RJ) wrote:These use the R7274 decoder. It's the same as the R8249 decoder but it only has a (non standard) 4 pin plug and socket.

IDK why Hornby do this?!!!! It's inane.

Although more than a decade ago now, I experienced the same nonsense with the Railway Class 08 and 'Jinty' from my Mixed Goods set. The decoders were in fact R8249 chips, but with a 4 pin proprietary connection as Roger said, and without numerical identification. The Fitted Pendolino I bought around the same time was SMT hardwired with an R8215, the R8249's predecessor instead of just using the standard PCB with 8 pin connector which was installed in the DCC Ready versions. That PCB was a standard part which would fit into either, and available as a Hornby spare, so why?!!

I would suspect that with so much else to fix at Hornby, correcting past errors of non-standardisation is item 313 on the 'to do' list.

Hopefully their new MD can bring about the necessary change: Hornby cannot hope any longer to permanently corral customers into a Hornby only system, and all past stratagems to that end should be given the chop as they are found, because they will be increasingly unacceptable as new customers are won. Which new customers the business is perfectly capable of winning, on the merits of their best product, combined with the magic of 'The Name'.

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Flashbang
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Re: Mixed Traffic Train Set R1236M (which DCC Chip)

Postby Flashbang » Wed May 27, 2020 10:34 am

To fit a stay alive capacitor to any Hornby decoder requires some very careful soldering on the decoders PCB!

This gives the details of what needs doing... https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/post/view/topic_id/13404/?p=2
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Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.


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