Dcc loco issues

Post all your DCC only problems, solutions and discoverys here.
User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 4056
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Mountain » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:26 am

Peters Spares?
I used to make springs from wire. A single strand of bicycle gear cable makes nice pickups, but maybe a bit strong for a motor. I used to use a strand of copper wire to make motor springs with, but it is not easy to find wire with strands which will work.

User avatar
Michaelaface
Posts: 336
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:51 am

Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Michaelaface » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:54 am

tried there but to no avail, noticed bachmann do repairs, might just send all my problem locos off to them and say plz make work agian

Bigmet
Posts: 6896
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Bigmet » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:25 am

Bachmann service is really the only option, fortunately they are good, usually pretty swift in turn around and prices are reasonable. (Hint if ever again taking the cap off the brush tube, do it inside a large clear plastic bag. The springs always attempt escape! Getting them back in is exceedingly fiddly too. In short, not an easy job.)

The alternative is being prepared to go it alone in sourcing a replacement motor. This was easier when Mashima were still in production, as Bach's motors were a size match - and generally similar in performance - to Mashima's range, Now you have to hope that 'new old stock' is available if going for a Mashima. You need a good worm puller too, Bach's friction fit worms are on TIGHT! in all my experience so far. There are alternative motors at good prices on line, but this is 'research carefully' territory.

User avatar
Chops
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Chops » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:45 am

Thank you for the clarification. Then, if a raw current of 12 to 15 volts AC is transmitted to the rails, that should reduce the effect of oxidization and grime as a barrier?
I don't care what they say. I believe in Nessie.

Bigmet
Posts: 6896
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Bigmet » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:49 am

I don't have any hard scientific evidence, but my perception on the layout I switched from DC to DCC was that the rail dirt reduced. That was exactly the same rails, and the same stock operating on it.

What was immediately noticeable was that pick up efficiency was much improved. Eliminated the occasional 'failure to start' that would happen on DC despite a careful regular cleaning regime.

I now have a dedicated test track for all new introductions to the layout because something else became apparent with DCC that I had never noticed over years of DC operation. New wheelsets are filthy! DCC appears to move this dirt off the running surfaces onto the rails really quickly, so I have it all 'dumped' on a dedicated test track which has to be cleaned after every new item has run in on it. The layout has very little rail dirt indeed now. (All metal wheels,all live crossing points, traction tyres, plastic wheels, banned: absolutely no wonder formulae switch cleaners, contact enhancers or other such potions permitted.)

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 11603
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Bufferstop » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:22 am

Switching from DC to AC, is the cause of reduction of dirt build up. Dry or not the combination of slightly different metals with dust, moisture etc in microscopic amounts between them leads to electrolytic action with DC. It's still there with AC but reverses its effect fifty times a second which means it gets nowhere. The cleanliness demanded by DCC and the need to keep constant contact, put the icing on the cake.
So called high frequency track cleaners used with DC merely blast a hole through the film of muck allowing the DC to flow. When I started my current layout I calculated that it would be many years, if ever, that I could afford to chip all my locos and swap to DCC, but what I could do was lay track and install wiring which would meet the Needs of DCC. The result much better running under DC and very much less track and wheel cleaning required.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

User avatar
Michaelaface
Posts: 336
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:51 am

Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Michaelaface » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:09 am

I’ve rarely had any issues with dirty track, only ever seems to occur after using recently weathered stock and I’ve missed a bit that needed cleaning and it’s subsequently been dumped on the track, but that’s easy to spot and get rid of

I remember the track for trainset I had as a child (23 years ago :shock: ) would get filthy constantly and need constant cleaning, but with the track I’ve bought in the last 10 years seems to stay relatively clean on its own

boxbrownie
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:23 am
Location: Looe, Cornwall

Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby boxbrownie » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:11 am

Different tracks attract dirt in varying degrees, whether it be Nickel Silver, Steel, Brass etc even the Nickel Silver will vary in composition from maker to maker.

I had a garden railway in LGB brass track, it looked BLACK after just a few weeks, but the rail heads became nice and shiney after just a few circuits and it never needed cleaning, also had a small section which was some odd American sourced track, not sure what the composition was but it needed cleaning constantly, replaced with LGB after a few months.
Best regards David

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you......I may wish to offend again.

Bramshot
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:55 pm

Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Bramshot » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:10 am

Bufferstop wrote: It's still there with AC but reverses its effect fifty times a second which means it gets nowhere.


Just to keep it correct,DCC frequency is 8 kHz nominal, not 50 Hz. And to be really pedantic it reverses at twice frequency.

User avatar
Michaelaface
Posts: 336
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:51 am

Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Michaelaface » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:56 pm

Next question, y’know all that mess of capacitors and resistors soldered across motors, are they needed on DCC? read they’re not an can actually inhibit smooth running?

Sooo what I’m asking is, can I get rid with no ill issues and will it solve the very slight jerky running I see at low and medium speeds on some of my locos?

Bramshot
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:55 pm

Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Bramshot » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:49 pm

If the loco is a relatively new one, then yes you can lose capacitors and resistors on the motor if you use dcc. It is supposed to make for smoother running, but I can’t say I have seen a lot of difference. Some say it is essential for proper operation of the decoder, but if that was the case then surely the resistors etc would be on the dc blanking plug and removed with it when using a dcc decoder. (Which would be a good idea). With older locos and motors, I don’t know. Probably still ok to remove.
However, beware on locos with lighting, as some components will be for those, usually resistors and diodes mounted on a pcb which includes the decoder socket and also the motor resistors, capacitors and sometimes also inductors. Take care not to remove the lighting related components, the only way to be sure which ones those are is to trace out the pcb circuit, not the easiest thing to do.
Regarding slow and jerky running, there may be an improvement, but this is also decoder dependent to some extent (not all decoders are equal) and can be affected by back emf settings, as well as mechanical issues.


Return to “DCC Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests