Dcc loco issues

Post all your DCC only problems, solutions and discoverys here.
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Peterm
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Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Peterm » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:42 pm

You don't even have to spend a fortune nowadays to get perfect running from a Zimo decoder (non sound) as the MX600 and MX617 can be bought for about 20 quid.
Pete.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Bufferstop » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:08 am

Dad-1 wrote:Everything that's NMRA compatible will work fine with a good DCC system - True, or False.
Very False !!
It seems nobody can really explain. The better the decoder the less problems you'll have.

Welcome to the world of digital electronics Geoff. The following are just accepted truisms
Specifications and compatibility are a minefield.
We call them digital systems, they do things following digital rules but never forget they are real things in a real analogue world and they all have analogue properties and behaviours.
The original system on which the NMRA scheme was based, was designed by Bosch for use in automotive systems.
It was developed around the same time as Bill Gates sold, to IBM, a system he hadn't yet bought.
What he bought was called QDOS, the quick and dirty operating system!
DCC has never had a major revision in which existing standards were ditched and new ones introduced at the cost of making existing hardware and software incompatible.

Can you still run Windows XP, Windows 95, IBM OS/2 ?
Fortunes have been ploughed into the development in the IT and comms industries?
Model railway manufacturers are minute when compared to the IT and comms sector.
Ongoing compatibility is a very shaky promise.
Is that enough of an explanation.

Cheers
John W
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Bigmet
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Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Bigmet » Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:50 am

Bufferstop wrote:...Ongoing compatibility is a very shaky promise...

In my experience a Lenz DCC system and Lenz or Zimo decoders are a stable solution, free from compatibility problems. I see plenty of other makes of decoders that friends have tried. The best of them just not as good all around, abundant direness in the worst cases.

I will only move off DCC as the operational control solution if a wireless communication format advancing over the best that DCC offers in control capability in all respects, with plain track recharging of small onboard power packs, becomes established as the way dominant 'standard' for the hobby, as was the case for clockwork, 12V DC, DCC.

Nothing in view at present.

boxbrownie
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Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby boxbrownie » Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:00 am

You could try Peterspares......
Best regards David

Please let me know if anything in my post offends you......I may wish to offend again.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Bufferstop » Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:47 pm

Bigmet wrote: In my experience a Lenz DCC system and Lenz or Zimo decoders are a stable solution,


A similar scenario to the "Apple v just about everyone else" in computers. Build your hardware to your design, control the use of it by copyright and patents rigorously enforced, and defended against reverse engineering, all works wonderfully but can be a bit expensive! As they say "you pays your money......................"
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Michaelaface
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Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Michaelaface » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:34 pm

my DCC system runs fine with everything but these hattons decoders aha, even my 10+ year old non NMRA hornby decoders perform great, either way I am very slowly upgrading everything, ESU are looking the most likely candidates atm for what I want from my locos

heard mixed things about zimo, I have a few zimo decoders that are pretty great though

and I have an increasing collection of D&H sound decoders which are also great

also I have checked and I am not alone with my issue with the hattons decoders, seems they were an old DCCconcepts design

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Mountain
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Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Mountain » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:29 am

Probably why they bought a job lot cheap?

The problem is with things like this is that manufacturers can test and test but it is not until they go out into the publc that issues really come into play, as there is always a small aspect that they had not accounted for while testing.

You will probably find they work well on other systems so you can sell them on to people who have other systems and they will be greatful.

Bigmet
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Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Bigmet » Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:50 pm

Bufferstop wrote:
Bigmet wrote: In my experience a Lenz DCC system and Lenz or Zimo decoders are a stable solution,


A similar scenario to the "Apple v just about everyone else" in computers. Build your hardware to your design, control the use of it by copyright and patents rigorously enforced..."

Lenz made their DCC design open source in conjunction with the NMRA. Some manufacturers choose to comply, others wander off track.

Bufferstop wrote:...all works wonderfully but can be a bit expensive! ...

In first cost, possibly; measured over service duration it's cheaper. Haven't needed to buy a single replacement for any of the Lenz or Zimo DCC kit purchased, and I am fast approaching 20 years use. For consumer grade electronics, this is very good.

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Peterm
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Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Peterm » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:39 pm

Bufferstop wrote:...all works wonderfully but can be a bit expensive! ...

In first cost, possibly; measured over service duration it's cheaper. Haven't needed to buy a single replacement for any of the Lenz or Zimo DCC kit purchased, and I am fast approaching 20 years use. For consumer grade electronics, this is very good.[/quote]
Like me, you might regret saying that. :wink:
Pete.

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Bufferstop
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Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:48 am

Lenz made their DCC design open source in conjunction with the NMRA

Oops missed that :oops: Perhaps it's the language thing, they don't seem to make a lot of it. At least they don't try to pretend there's no other manufacturer in the business like a very British firm used to (may still do to some extent).
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Bigmet
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Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Bigmet » Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:31 am

Peterm wrote:
Bufferstop wrote:...all works wonderfully but can be a bit expensive! ...

Bigmet wrote:In first cost, possibly; measured over service duration it's cheaper. Haven't needed to buy a single replacement for any of the Lenz or Zimo DCC kit purchased, and I am fast approaching 20 years use. For consumer grade electronics, this is very good.

Like me, you might regret saying that. :wink:

My view, the DCC system cost spread over that time is now nearly down to £10 a year. I have had my money's worth and more using it for hours a day, almost every day I am home.

As for the accumulated £2000 spent on decoders, the few infant mortalities on my first purchase of 40 Lenz golds (I would have bought Lenz silvers, but demand was outstripping supply at the time and there were only 2 to be had!) were all replaced free under the warranty; and no trouble at all since with the Lenz and Zimo decoders I have standardised on. Even if all that first purchase of 42 decoders blew up tonight, I'd still feel they had done well; among other things they have been used to drive about 30 Bachmann split chassis and several more conventional kit built and RTR mechanisms to total wear out.

Over this same time, other significantly more expensive consumer electronics (home entertainment, PC's, mobile phones, appliances) have gone phut with some regularity, and much of it has proved uneconomic or even impossible to repair. So I rate the robustness of the model railway electronics pretty high.

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Peterm
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Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Peterm » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:20 am

Yes certainly agree about the decoders, control systems (I use Lenz LH & Zimo decoders exclusively) and home electronics too. We've just coughed up $540.00 for a Yamaha tuner/amp to be repaired. I looked all over the place for a replacement, but couldn't find anything that does what this one does and with all the connections on the back for less than about $1500.00!
Pete.

Bigmet
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Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Bigmet » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:43 am

Peterm wrote:Like me, you might regret saying that. :wink:

Bigmet wrote:My view, the DCC system cost spread over that time is now nearly down to £10 a year. I have had my money's worth and more using it for hours a day, almost every day I am home.

As for the accumulated £2000 spent on decoders, the few infant mortalities on my first purchase of 40 Lenz golds (I would have bought Lenz silvers, but demand was outstripping supply at the time and there were only 2 to be had!) were all replaced free under the warranty; and no trouble at all since with the Lenz and Zimo decoders I have standardised on. Even if all that first purchase of 42 decoders blew up tonight, I'd still feel they had done well...

Well, all the kit made it unscathed through another operating session... :D

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Peterm
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Re: Dcc loco issues

Postby Peterm » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:39 am

Don't push it mate. Take it from someone that knows. :D
Pete.


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