Oxford Rail Adams Radial Decoder Problem

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waz
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Oxford Rail Adams Radial Decoder Problem

Postby waz » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:07 pm

Hi Chaps!
Got an Oxford Rail Adams Radial for my 73rd birthday. I'm having a problem with fitting a decoder. There seems to be little room for it to fit and I can only get one of the two screws to fit at the back. It has blown three decoders to date though it has run okay for the past two weeks. Now it is shorting out and only runs in reverse at full speed and uncontrolled. I have insulated the top of the plug and the decoder but the problem is the space for it to fit into. Sandwiching everything together I think is the problem but that's how it is.
If any of you have had the same problem and overcome it please tell me how you did it.

My best regards
BILL.

Suzie
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Re: Oxford Rail Adams Radial Decoder Problem

Postby Suzie » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:25 pm

What make of decoder are you using and which socket does the loco have? Oxford keep this a secret!

Bigmet
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Re: Oxford Rail Adams Radial Decoder Problem

Postby Bigmet » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:38 am

It has an eight pin socket in the bunker.

There's about 5mm available above the socket with the blanking plug removed, and the length and width are 'not that much'. (I did the decoder fitting for a friend, so don't have it to look at now.)

The bunker is a metal casting, so unless fully lined with insulating tape is unusable with an uninsulated decoder.

I completely removed the PCB with the socket on it, and hard wired it with a Lenz Silver mini, lining the bunker space with insulating tape to avoid a decoder destroying short circuit.

The motor is a good low current unit on 50:1 reduction so no great challenge for a competent decoder, performs smoothly on DCC from a very good 'dead slow'.

(I did other stuff on the model, removing the flywheel from the drive line to fully conceal the motor, and adjusting the vertical movement available on the chassis so that current collection is maintained over track dips in particular. Had it been my own then with the drive line mod done I would first think of a Zimo MX600 which can probably neatly go in the smokebox at the cost of some more extensive internal wiring re-arrangement, I suspect this decoder is just too big for the bunker space but don't now have the model to measure.

This was an ambitious first product from Oxford and some of what I see as 'inpetitude' in internal layout design can perhaps be attributed to that. Not seen inside the Hornby to assess whether their greater experience tells...)

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waz
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Re: Oxford Rail Adams Radial Decoder Problem

Postby waz » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:29 am

Suzie.
Hornby eight pin.
Bigmet.
Thanks for your interest and advice. I sused that the bunker was metal and I insulated between the top of the decoder and the and the plug. You are obviously very compitent at electronics. I have good eyes and steady nerves but my soldering us rubbish.
I note that they do a sound version of the loco so the speaker must go somewhere. I wonder if the metal casing can be somehow removed to give more room? I'll try find out.
Thanks for all your help.
My kind regards
BILL.

Mike Parkes
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Re: Oxford Rail Adams Radial Decoder Problem

Postby Mike Parkes » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:57 pm

The Hornby one has a 8 pin socket set at the bunker - a bit of space but on a number they got the wiring to 8 pin socket wrong so mine has a hard wired decoder. Re the Oxford one a TCS DP2X-UK decoder should be the easiest one to fit, albeit those are now generally around £30 with postage i.e.https://www.coastaldcc.co.uk/products/t ... -for-steam

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SRman
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Re: Oxford Rail Adams Radial Decoder Problem

Postby SRman » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:21 am

My Oxford Rail 30584 has a DCC Concepts Zen direct decoder fitted, with no problems to report.

Bigmet
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Re: Oxford Rail Adams Radial Decoder Problem

Postby Bigmet » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:32 am

waz wrote:... I wonder if the metal casing can be somehow removed to give more room?...

Only if you are prepared to scratchbuild a replacement bunker! The footplate, bunker and side tanks (at least) are a single cast metal piece.

A side cutter in a rotary tool could be used to thin the metal from the inside if truly desperate.

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waz
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Re: Oxford Rail Adams Radial Decoder Problem

Postby waz » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:24 am

Hi Chaps!
Thanks for all your input. I have decided to try a direct plug in decoder. Not quite sure which one but SRman recons the Zen dcc concepts is okay. I'll order something up today and let you know.

Many thanks for the help.
With kind regards.
BILL.

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SRman
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Re: Oxford Rail Adams Radial Decoder Problem

Postby SRman » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:50 am

Waz, be careful which DCC Concepts decoder you order, as they have two sizes of direct plug-in ones; you need the smaller one for the Radial.

Mike Parkes
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Re: Oxford Rail Adams Radial Decoder Problem

Postby Mike Parkes » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:53 pm

Wish DCC Concepts would put some useful information on their web site like a list of locos their decoders fit instead of all the hype - its no good telling us the Zen Nano-Direct decoder is the worlds smallest direct plug 8-pin decoder when its 1.5mm taller than the TCS DP2X-UK and height is often crucial with the crazy location of many 8 pin sockets - for example whilst the 717 cubic mm TCS decoder can be fitted in a Hornby M7 (by fitting it the wrong way round and reversing the direction in CV29) the 525 cubic mm Zen Nano is too tall.

The Zen 360 seems a oddity to me, its difficult to find any loco needing a direct fit decoder that it actually fits - at 621 cubic mm is still smaller than the TCS DP2X-UK and of the same height but it gets let down by its 12.5mm width which crucially makes it not fit locations (or more likely prevents the body from fitting back on) that the narrower by 0.46mm TCS decoder fits. Probably not a surprise given the shape of the body but I did get to fit a Bachmann 57xx. If they had made it 12mm wide and 0.8mm longer it would be a cheap alternative to the TCS decoder.

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sarah
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Re: Oxford Rail Adams Radial Decoder Problem

Postby sarah » Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:16 pm

Hornby Magazine December issue has an article on fitting a DCC sound decoder with stay alive to the Oxford Radial Tank...

Some useful info in that article, whichever decoder you may end up fitting.

I tried a DCC Zen Direct (with remote stay alive) but the decoder was too tall / thick to go in the bunker, the body would not drop down enough!

A "flat" direct 8 pin just fits....I think mine is a Bachmann issue....but not checked!

The Hornby Mag removes the socket and hard wires....and the capacitor / stay alive fits into a hidden recess under the coal load....only acessible after removing parts!

So....I may well be undertaking some modifications to mine in the future!

As for sound....there is a wiring path to a space in the smokebox for the speaker....where I was going to put the DCC Zen stay alive!

Mike Parkes
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Re: Oxford Rail Adams Radial Decoder Problem

Postby Mike Parkes » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:58 pm

sarah wrote:A "flat" direct 8 pin just fits....I think mine is a Bachmann issue....but not checked!

Bachmann have not sold a direct fit decoder.

Bigmet
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Re: Oxford Rail Adams Radial Decoder Problem

Postby Bigmet » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:41 am

sarah wrote: ... a hidden recess under the coal load... only acessible after removing parts!...

Thanks for that information, shall file it away in case I ever have to tackle another one.

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waz
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Re: Oxford Rail Adams Radial Decoder Problem

Postby waz » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:06 pm

Hi Chaps.

Thanks for all your input. Tried a Zen 360 (Ithink) No luck on the fit. Only put the front screw in. It ran for five minutes before frying.
I solved the problem by taking it back to my local supplyer. Swaped it for a Hornby Railroad Mallard. So problem solved. Can't be faffing about like that. BTW Neil at Track Shack https://www.track-shack.com/ (worth a look! Great Service) gave me a Gaugemaster direct plug in for it. When I tryed it it stuttered over points. Replaced it with a Hornby decoder and low and beholed no problems. Put the gaugemaster plug in into the Hornby loco I had swaped the decoder from and no probs?
Thanks for all your help and interest.

Case Closed.

With my Kind regards
BILL.

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sarah
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Re: Oxford Rail Adams Radial Decoder Problem

Postby sarah » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:38 pm

Mike Parkes wrote:
sarah wrote:A "flat" direct 8 pin just fits....I think mine is a Bachmann issue....but not checked!

Bachmann have not sold a direct fit decoder.


Thanks for that....

It looks like a Bachmann decoder, in colour, etc...

So, it will be another make....but my system doesn't read back CVs, so no use looking there.

Bachmann seem to have decoders from different makers......so it is probably one of these suppliers I suppoose.


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