Bachmann 36-568 chip

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bvancetalktalknet
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Bachmann 36-568 chip

Postby bvancetalktalknet » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:00 pm

Hi,
I am having problems getting CV6, medium speed/shunting to operate, toggling F6 achieves nothing. The chip is fitted to a Bachmann E4. All other CV's work and can be read/reprogrammed. I have tried all inputs to CV6 to no avail. I understand that the chip is a Zimo MX622n, since there is no information on the Bachmann website I have tried the Zimo website, although the manual is extensive,90+ pages, there was nothing I could see that could be causing the problem. What am I missing? I am using a Dynamis Ultima for DCC control.

Mod Note.. Topic moved to the DCC forum section.

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Mountain
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Re: Bachmann 36-568 chip

Postby Mountain » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:25 pm

Was just looking. I only have details for 36-550 and 36-552 as these are the two Bachmann decoders I bought. None of mine have CV 5 and CV 6 capability which are the mid point and top speed settings.
They do have the start voltage setting (CV2).
I've not had any issues with them as they work fine. Not sure if one can alter speed curves. My Lenz 103XF decoder instructions mention speed curve capability... Just seen. CV 67 to CV 94 can be altered on the 36-550 I have but not mentioned on the 36-552.
I assume you're 36-568 decoder may not have the ability to access CV 6?

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Roger (RJ)
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Re: Bachmann 36-568 chip

Postby Roger (RJ) » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:31 pm

bvancetalktalknet wrote:Hi,
I am having problems getting CV6, medium speed/shunting to operate, toggling F6 achieves nothing. The chip is fitted to a Bachmann E4. All other CV's work and can be read/reprogrammed. I have tried all inputs to CV6 to no avail. I understand that the chip is a Zimo MX622n, since there is no information on the Bachmann website I have tried the Zimo website, although the manual is extensive,90+ pages, there was nothing I could see that could be causing the problem. What am I missing? I am using a Dynamis Ultima for DCC control.


As I understand it, shunting speed is normally controlled by F3 on Zimo decoders.
So try F3 and see if that activates shunting mode.

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bvancetalktalknet
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Re: Bachmann 36-568 chip

Postby bvancetalktalknet » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:45 pm

Thanks for your responses.
The info on the miniscule sheet included with the chip states that F3 controls acceleration from start, which is correct as I have changed the default setting. As I said I can read CV6 and adjust it but it does not have the desired effect of immediately reducing speed.

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Forfarian
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Re: Bachmann 36-568 chip

Postby Forfarian » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:55 pm

I have a number of Zimo decoders and on a Powercab it is F7 that controls shunting speed.
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Re: Bachmann 36-568 chip

Postby RFS » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:03 pm

bvancetalktalknet wrote:Thanks for your responses.
The info on the miniscule sheet included with the chip states that F3 controls acceleration from start, which is correct as I have changed the default setting. As I said I can read CV6 and adjust it but it does not have the desired effect of immediately reducing speed.



You seem to be confusing CVs with function keys: CV6 and F6 are not the same thing. Likewise it's CV3 that controls acceleration from start and not F3. I have only Lenz and Zimo decoders and both of these have shunting speed invoked by F3. All this does is reduce all speed by 50%. And F3 is completely separate from any of the CVs you have set up.

I believe you can change which function code is used as F3 is the default, but that seems to get quite complicated.
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Re: Bachmann 36-568 chip

Postby Paul-H » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:25 pm

Just checking something here

The OP says he is adjusting CV6 but not seeing any result, not totally sure about this but I seem to remember reading that for CV6 (mid speed) to be active CV5 (top speed) also has to be set

So try CV5 at 128 and CV6 at 64 then try F3 for shunting mode.

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Re: Bachmann 36-568 chip

Postby RFS » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:48 am

Paul-H wrote:Just checking something here

The OP says he is adjusting CV6 but not seeing any result, not totally sure about this but I seem to remember reading that for CV6 (mid speed) to be active CV5 (top speed) also has to be set

So try CV5 at 128 and CV6 at 64 then try F3 for shunting mode.


You seem to be also getting mixed up between function keys and CVs, which as I mentioned in my last post are not the same thing. All CVs are always set to a value - it's not the case that CV5 is not set, just that the decoder comes with it set to a default value which you can change if it's not to your liking.

F3 shunting mode is completely independent of any CV settings. It just runs the loco at half the normal speed, and that speed can of course have been adjusted by setting the various CVs, such as 3,4,5 and 6.
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Re: Bachmann 36-568 chip

Postby Bigmet » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:44 am

RFS wrote:You seem to be confusing CVs with function keys: CV6 and F6 are not the same thing. Likewise it's CV3 that controls acceleration from start and not F3. I have only Lenz and Zimo decoders and both of these have shunting speed invoked by F3. All this does is reduce all speed by 50%. And F3 is completely separate from any of the CVs you have set up...


Quite so. Perhaps it will help to say that the 'Configuration Variables' (CV's) are settable to suit the taste of the user but are generally then left untouched in normal operation.

The speed curve is most simply accessed via:
CV2 start speed
CV5 maximum speed
CV6 mid speed

First get those set so the loco moves through the speed range to your taste. (Usually setting CV6 near the halfway mark between the values in CV's 2 and 5 will produce a good result.)

You can also add or reduce 'inertia simulation' or 'delay' in acceleration and deceleration in CV's 3 and 4, set those to values that produce the effect you like.

Then when operating, there are two very useful Function keys available on Lenz, Zimo and ESU. (Possibly applicable to other brands as well.)

F3 halves the speed setting, often called shunt mode.

F4 cancels the effect of CV's 3 and 4 while engaged. I actually find this the more useful one for shunting as it gives the operator a direct drive, there's no delay in speeding up and slowing down. (If the 128 speed step setting is utilised, operation is still visually smooth if you increase or decrease speed one step at a time.)

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Re: Bachmann 36-568 chip

Postby Paul-H » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:28 pm

RFS wrote:
Paul-H wrote:Just checking something here

The OP says he is adjusting CV6 but not seeing any result, not totally sure about this but I seem to remember reading that for CV6 (mid speed) to be active CV5 (top speed) also has to be set

So try CV5 at 128 and CV6 at 64 then try F3 for shunting mode.


You seem to be also getting mixed up between function keys and CVs, which as I mentioned in my last post are not the same thing. All CVs are always set to a value - it's not the case that CV5 is not set, just that the decoder comes with it set to a default value which you can change if it's not to your liking.

F3 shunting mode is completely independent of any CV settings. It just runs the loco at half the normal speed, and that speed can of course have been adjusted by setting the various CVs, such as 3,4,5 and 6.


No I am not please 're read what I posted how am I getting confused when I clearly say adjust CV and try F3, Clearly 2 Different things to try.

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Re: Bachmann 36-568 chip

Postby End2end » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:02 pm

Thanks for that nugget of info members. I'd never heard of the F3 shunting mode. :)
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bvancetalktalknet
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Re: Bachmann 36-568 chip

Postby bvancetalktalknet » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:21 pm

Thanks you all once again for your comments,
My assumption that Function 6 initiates the 'shunting ' mode is that my first two DCC engines, an Oxford Rail Adam's Radial and a Hornby 08, both fitted with sound, had this as a function, hence my thinking that the Bachmann E4 would also have it. Why wouldn't it? Clearly this is coincidental. I have come to the conclusion that this chip does not have ' Shunting ' as a function, simple as that.
Incidentally, how are the function keys 'mapped ' onto the chip and are they able to be altered by the user?

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Re: Bachmann 36-568 chip

Postby Bramshot » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:23 pm

It is all in the Zimo small decoder manual.

F3 is not set to be the shunting key by default, so it will do nothing until you set it up to (or other key if you prefer). At least it isn’t in a Zimo badged unit, Bachmann might have pre-set it.

This is done by the user if required in CV124. Additionally CV’s 155 and 156 can be used to set a Function key for half speed and cancelling momentum, which is cancelling the effect of CVs 3 and 4, the acceleration and deceleration CVs. This is covered in Section 3.13 of the Zimo manual.

CV’s 5 and 6 as with nearly all decoders set the max speed and mid speed respectively. Zimo decoders have an additional feature which I use to get finer control (though it is in any case very good), which is to use CV 57 to set the maximum voltage that can be applied to the motor, set CV 5 to 0 (same as max) and CV 6 to 128 ( my preference to set a more or less linear speed response, you can use higher of lower if you want to skew the response). The value in CV 57 is in 100 mV steps, so a setting of 95 = 9500 mV = 9.5 V, for example. Set your controller to max, or whatever mid range speed you might choose for ‘normal’ operation, then adjust CV57 to give the speed you require. I time mine over a length of flexitrack, so 70 mph, for example is about 4.5 seconds, (for N 1:148).

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bvancetalktalknet
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Re: Bachmann 36-568 chip

Postby bvancetalktalknet » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:49 pm

Thanks Bramshot for your very helpful comment.
I have changed CV124 as you suggested, the default value was 3. It is now 11, which results in F7 becoming the half speed/'shunting' key. Pity it could not be F6 to be then be consistent with my other two engines, but it is far better than having nothing at all.

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Re: Bachmann 36-568 chip

Postby Bigmet » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:12 pm

This aspect of no standard key defined for operational functions is something that has led me to home in on a small range of decoder maker's which either do it the same or may be programmed to conform. When operating from a group of seventy locos the last thing you want is the need to remember what function does what. 'All the same' is much easier.


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