0-4-0 dcc

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dgp1957
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0-4-0 dcc

Postby dgp1957 » Sun May 13, 2018 12:19 am

Guys can anyone point me to a guide to adding a decoder to a Hornby pug?

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Mountain
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Re: 0-4-0 dcc

Postby Mountain » Sun May 13, 2018 12:31 am

Is it the budget type that are found in trainsets? If so, these are quite easy to convert, though you do need a little N gauge decoder that will handle around half an amp (Or more). It also has to be a wired type of decoder. (I believe they are now called harness type decoders? I'm a bit out of date. You may have to cut off the socket at the end of the wires if it has a socket).
There should be enough room in the back of the lower part of the chassis to fit the decoder into. Measure this space on your loco before ordering a decoder as this is the easiest space to use. I have heard that others remove the weight at the front but to me I try to avoid this, as the weight helps the locos pulling power.
You may need to slightly cut the copper pickups to the wheels to isolate them (Some versions may not need this. The idea is to isolate the motor from its pickups ready for the decoder wires to be soldered in). When I did it I made a cut on the TV suppressing capacitor at the soldered end and bent it out the way. (This way, if it needs to be converted back to DC it can simply be soldered back). Then the red and black wires are soldered onto the wheel pickups, and the orange and grey wires are soldered to the motor terminals. That's it. I tend to then roll up the excess wire and place in with the decoder rather then shorten the wires and cut off the unused wires. There should be enough room if using a small enough decoder. Mine was an early Lenz decoder before the Gold and Silver series came in. By coiling up the excess wiring, if one wants to convert back to DC in future years, one can also re-use the decoder in another locomotive. I always try to do this on my locos as one never knows what ones future plans may be.
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

dgp1957
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Re: 0-4-0 dcc

Postby dgp1957 » Sun May 13, 2018 12:42 am

Don't think it's one from a set, just bought it on eBay, it's this model L&Y 0F CLASS 0-4-0ST LOCO No 627.
Will the same method work?

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End2end
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Re: 0-4-0 dcc

Postby End2end » Sun May 13, 2018 12:59 am

Not exactly a Pug, but DCCing an 0-4-0.
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=51555&start=30#p642327
Hope it helps.
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RAFHAAA96
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Re: 0-4-0 dcc

Postby RAFHAAA96 » Sun May 13, 2018 8:54 am

There are two guides here
https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/hornby-dcc ... ion-guides
One for smokey joe and the other for generic 0-4-0s
Rob
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Re: 0-4-0 dcc

Postby Dad-1 » Sun May 13, 2018 9:13 am

I can't say I know exactly which model you refer to as Hornby
put many, many, different bodies on their 0-4-0 chassis.
For most the Hornby R8249 decoder will fit in and I have them
in several, namely : 2 x 06 Diesel shunters, 1 x Caledonian Pug,
1 x Dean Sidings resin 0-4-2 conversion, 1 x GWR Holden.

Red & Black are track locomotive pick-up wires of the decoder, Red
needs to be connected to the right hand side (looking forward) locomotive
pick-up lead, that may not be red. Decoder black to the locomotives left
hand side pick-up wire. Then from decoder to motor connect Orange &
Grey (orange motor right, grey motor left).

Space is always 'tight' so neat work required.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

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End2end
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Re: 0-4-0 dcc

Postby End2end » Sun May 13, 2018 9:22 am

Dad-1 wrote:For most the Hornby R8249 decoder will fit in and I have them

Aren't these rather large compared to say a Lenz or Bachmann 6 pin decoder?
In an 0-4-0 I doubt you'd need the extra pins unless lighting is required being that space is a premium in such a small loco. Might make it easier to install too.
Just a thought..... as I personally wouldn't touch a Hornby decoder with a bargepole. :?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL7F1b0MpRs
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Re: 0-4-0 dcc

Postby Dad-1 » Mon May 14, 2018 9:07 am

Hi E2E,

Some equipment is not particularly happy with the R8249, but using a Hornby
controller I've never had any problems with them, where I have had difficulties
with TMC & Bachmann.
Lenz are good and I prefer to use them for anything which may prove difficult,
like the two small white metal locomotives from Roxey Mouldings. The Lenz
mini is super small, but at a price - when they were only £8 each I bought quite
a few R8249's
What of course you can't do is change many CV's and for many who enjoy re-configuring
their decoders it's not for them. Generally I want to do is just plug-in and play, just
using the DCC to provide the ability to run several locos from the same track feeds.
Having said that you can't get much better in slow running than I have on most of
my locos where I can run at less than a scale 2 MPH.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

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RAFHAAA96
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Re: 0-4-0 dcc

Postby RAFHAAA96 » Mon May 14, 2018 9:09 am

Enough room for a socket to plug in an R8249...

FB744D31-D934-4588-80D1-027084DDF9E6.jpeg


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Dad-1
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Re: 0-4-0 dcc

Postby Dad-1 » Mon May 14, 2018 12:24 pm

Hi E2E,

I have now had a look at that video from 2011, never seen it before,
but some questions came into my mind which make me think that was
a set-up job !!
First ask yourself if you have ever had a video trained in ultra close-up when you
are about to test a locomotive you've just fitted with a decoder ?????

No I thought not

Now could this be a second attempt ? But if so HOW did the OP know exactly where
the decoder would burn out ???? I like anyone with over 80 DCC fitted locomotives
have had a failure, but when it's actually in a locomotive the most you'll see is
a puff of smoke, even that is unusual.

Obviously tbe OP knew where to look , or the whole decoder would be in the frame,
not just one end. I also noted that my R8249 decoders look slightly different.

Image

Image

Now I am not claiming these are a top quality decoder, obviously they are not, but
are simple and made to a price. Given good handling ref anti-static, care to install
without shorts they can and do give reliable service although SOME DCC systems don't
like them.

I notice they say motor in a tender ? Now many of the older motors need more amps
to start than modern stock which all mine is. These decoders are rated as 1 amp full
load, and just 500 ma continuous. Perhaps the loco involved needed a heavier duty
decoder, but as I said this is a set-up job.

Geoff T.

As to slow running performance how about this, over an insulated double slip. I'll add
the video link later as Youtube keeps crashing Firefox this morning.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

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End2end
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Re: 0-4-0 dcc

Postby End2end » Mon May 14, 2018 1:26 pm

Forgive me Dad-1. It was just the first video that came up on YT. I could have chosen any one from hundreds listed for the example.
As for "although SOME DCC systems don't like them." That to me is called incompatibility.
Thanks
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Re: 0-4-0 dcc

Postby Dad-1 » Mon May 14, 2018 1:55 pm

Incompatibility is something that seems to come with DCC.
Many have reported difficulties with other cheaper decoders.
One of the most odd was a Bachmann EMU with a Bachmann 21 pin
decoder that wouldn't work with a Bachmann controller. The decoder
was reported as working fine in other locomotives and the EMU
worked fine on DC. The OP put a 21 pin Hornby decoder in and
it worked !!

This is hearsay from queries raised on this forum some years back.

Anyone would think this was a Windows system !!

I have also heard of problems with early Hornby decoders, although
off the top of my head I can't recall the Hornby product code, but it
wasn't the R8249.

It's a place where you pays your money ...... and be it your control system,
or decoder, the general rule is the more you pay the better the product.


Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Bigmet
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Re: 0-4-0 dcc

Postby Bigmet » Mon May 14, 2018 2:35 pm

dgp1957 wrote:... model L&Y 0F CLASS 0-4-0ST LOCO No 627. Will the same method work?

Red and black to the track (one to each pick up), orange and grey 'the other way' (one per motor terminal) will always work. It's working out how to physically fit in the decoder and wiring that's in the individual's hands.

First things first, does the model run reliably at all times on DC? Particularly check for slow running, and that it starts every time it is given power, and in both directions. If there is anything less than satisfactory in pick up and mechanical operation, DCC cannot fix this.

This model was designed decades ago with no thought for a DCC fit, but the motor Hornby have in it responds well to a good decoder. I would suggest the Lenz Standard or Zimo MX600, probably the latter preferable as the model is physically small. Anticipate having to cut chunks out of one or more internal components of the model to fit the decoder. I have done this operation on examples of the 'Austerity' 0-6-0T (J94) from the same design shop: removed all the existing wiring from loco, trimmed off five unwanted wires from decoder and then soldered the remaining four decoder wires trimmed to precise length to the pick ups and brushes, sawed a good chunk off the bottom of the main ballast weight to make a decoder void, then fit in extra lead ballast to restore weight. The construction design and quality is not the best for DCC fitting, an awkward installation that required careful planning of decoder location and wiring runs. Once done the models have all continued to run sweetly.

Honesty time: Have you ever perfomed a hard wired decoder install on a loco? I would seriously suggest gaining experience on another model first, one with more internal space and no constructional obstacles, in order to gain confidence. An early example of Bachmann's 3F 0-6-0T that came without a decoder socket for example. Still needs careful work, but there is space for a Lenz standard decoder as provided, just the wiring runs to plan out and install.


Dad-1 wrote:Incompatibility is something that seems to come with DCC...

There's DCC Lenz/NMRA standard, open system.
Then there's DCC, deviant. Not a few manufacturers have gone this road, some declared, some undeclared.

Stick to the hardcore of European manufacturers who respect the standard, CTE, ESU, Lenz, Roco, Zimo, and compatability can be yours. I use a Lenz system, decoders from these makers, no troubles to date whatsoever over more than a dozen years and about 200 mechanisms of varying type. (There may well be other makers to add, but I haven't tried every product!)

Elsewhere, 'troubles' arise. I fit decoders for a few friends, some of whom have wanted different despite my suggestions. And then sometimes they didn't like the results, despite every attempt at CV adjustment and much else. Long story short, I just won't install any but from my list above now. When PITA is avoidable...

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Re: 0-4-0 dcc

Postby Bufferstop » Mon May 14, 2018 11:19 pm

Dad-1 wrote:Incompatibility is something that seems to come with DCC.


Not just with DCC Geoff, it's a plague of all things digital, usually down to the nasty complex analogue world impinging on the on/off certainty of the digital one. Problems that defeat engineers,logic probes and test meters, finally only solved by looking at the signal on a scope, the square wave decreed in the spec looks more like the roofs and spires of Hogwarts Castle.
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Mountain
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Re: 0-4-0 dcc

Postby Mountain » Tue May 15, 2018 1:15 am

I've not had issues with my Lenz standard decoders like the LE103XF, but they wouldn't fit in the little 0-4-0's. They work great for my Lima models though. I bought mine when the prices went down by half to around £17 per decoder back in 2000-2001. They had been over £30 for the cheapest decoder before that!
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.


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