DCC control for Tortoise motors

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tom_tom_go
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Re: DCC control for Tortoise motors

Postby tom_tom_go » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:47 am

RFS thanks again for your advice. My test environment was wrong as I had the Select connected directly to the Switch 8 whereas it should be connected to the track (the instructions also state the unit should not be connected to the programming track) Doh! :D

All working fine now on address 60. I notice though when the motor has made a complete move from left/right it keeps trying to move a few times before stopping:

Otherwise it moves over until such time as it encounters resistance and then will stop in "stall" mode. This way a small amount of power is used to hold the blades in position (hence you don't need the springs on the points).


Is this to do with the fact it has no resistance at the moment as not being connected to a point?

Cheers,

Tom
The Feynman Problem-Solving Algorithm:
(1) Write down the problem
(2) Think very hard
(3) Write down the answer


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Re: DCC control for Tortoise motors

Postby RFS » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:36 pm

I would assume that's the case although I've never tried to work a Tortoise without a point attached. They are designed to stall when they meet resistance so I'd see what happens when you attach to your first point.
Robert Smith

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tom_tom_go
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Re: DCC control for Tortoise motors

Postby tom_tom_go » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:28 am

UPDATE: The Hornby Select is currently not an option for running this set up as Hornby in their wisdom decided that when you program an accessory to address 61 it then automatically starts programming slots 62, 63 and 64. This game carries on throughout the address range so 65 then does the next set and so on.

The only address you can program as a single entry is 60!

So when you try and program the NCE Switch 8 you end up re-programming slot one on it with four address - doh!

Fortunately, I have a SPROG II which can operate the Switch-8 although I am still playing around trying to get the panel editor to work with it.

Maybe there is a way I can program the Switch-8 using the SPROG II so that I can address each slot one by one i.e. 61, 62, etc so the Select will be able to opreate it.

Cheers,

Tom
The Feynman Problem-Solving Algorithm:
(1) Write down the problem
(2) Think very hard
(3) Write down the answer


16mm Robin Wood Light Railway - http://tinyurl.com/16mmNGM-rwlr
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RFS
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Re: DCC control for Tortoise motors

Postby RFS » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:05 am

The procedure you're describing is for programming a Hornby accessory decoder. I'm sure this is not how you program an NCE Switch-8. You set the the Switch-8 into programming mode via the jumper, and set its dial to the physcial address (0-7) that you want to set. Then you just operate that address from the Select as though it's a normally-connected turnout. You then repeat the process for each of the other 7 addresses.
Robert Smith

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tom_tom_go
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Re: DCC control for Tortoise motors

Postby tom_tom_go » Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:41 pm

Hi RFS you are right it's not how you program a Switch-8, however, the NCE way to program doesn't work with the Select and the only way I got it to recognise address 60 was to program it using the Hornby method.

As mentioned the Select is aimed at the 'train-set' market and when I first got back into OO I had no idea I would be trying to do the things I am doing now :)

Cheers,

Tom
The Feynman Problem-Solving Algorithm:
(1) Write down the problem
(2) Think very hard
(3) Write down the answer


16mm Robin Wood Light Railway - http://tinyurl.com/16mmNGM-rwlr
Scale Model Technical Services - www.smtsmodels.com

RFS
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Re: DCC control for Tortoise motors

Postby RFS » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:52 pm

I still don't quite understand your problem here. What happens if you put the Switch-8 into setup mode using the jumper, set the dial to 0 and then simply operate turnout 60 from the Select? Surely that initializes the port? Then you turn the dial to port 1 and operate address 61 etc up to port 7/address 67. You don't actually initialize the Switch-8 from the Select (or indeed from any DCC other command station) - just operate addresses 60-67 in sequence but with the Switch-8 in setup mode.
Robert Smith

Martin71
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Re: DCC control for Tortoise motors

Postby Martin71 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:41 am

Hi

Some very good advice re new controller. This is the first area I would look at. Honestly do yourself a favour and consider another one. You have the NCE switch 8 excellent product and works well with Cobalt or Tortoise. If you stick with your current controller it will always be a battle.

Another option as you have some nce gear already have a look at the power cab then read up about macros in the instructions. I have a little testing micro layout which has 8 points with cobalt point motors and cobalt assy decoders, smaller and more efficient than Tortoise all running off track power and it pulls a huge 0.4mA (average 0.3ma) when all 8 are thrown together.

It doesnt need to be an NCE just buy a controller that is manufactured by a non "train set" manufacturer.

Best of luck.

m

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tom_tom_go
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Re: DCC control for Tortoise motors

Postby tom_tom_go » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:36 pm

RFS wrote:I still don't quite understand your problem here. What happens if you put the Switch-8 into setup mode using the jumper, set the dial to 0 and then simply operate turnout 60 from the Select?


Nothing happens. The only way I got the motor to work on address 60 was to do the LA command from the Select and then program it to this address like you would do with a loco (the red light flashes about four times on the Select).

RFS wrote: You don't actually initialize the Switch-8 from the Select (or indeed from any DCC other command station) - just operate addresses 60-67 in sequence but with the Switch-8 in setup mode.


Yes RFS you are right, however, this does not work for the Select. My idea was to now somehow program the Switch 8 from my SPROG II so the Select could operate the other address from 61 onwards.

Buying a new controller is obviously the way to go, however, I also run 16mm live steamers in my garden so not sure if I can really justify spending more money on my OO layout as it's only really a winter project to mess around with and I reckon my SPROG II could run the whole layout as it's only small.

Cheers,

Tom
The Feynman Problem-Solving Algorithm:
(1) Write down the problem
(2) Think very hard
(3) Write down the answer


16mm Robin Wood Light Railway - http://tinyurl.com/16mmNGM-rwlr
Scale Model Technical Services - www.smtsmodels.com

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tom_tom_go
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Re: DCC control for Tortoise motors

Postby tom_tom_go » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:27 pm

I had one last play with all this before giving up and I got the SPROG II to program different slots on the Switch 8 simply by using the 'Turnout Control' feature, selecting what address I wanted, having the Switch 8 dial selected correctly with the jumper added and then sending a 'throw' command.

As RFS has mentioned it should be the same method for the Select and would you believe it the bloody thing now WORKS! :D So I can now program using the Select!

One last thing is I would like to use the same set up for operating points on my 16mm outdoor layout using Fulgurex motors but they require 200 mA when the motor is running.

According to the Switch 8 manual the outputs on it only provide 50 mA so is this why the Fulgurex motors aren't working as Tortoise motors pull only about 10 - 20 mA?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

Tom
The Feynman Problem-Solving Algorithm:
(1) Write down the problem
(2) Think very hard
(3) Write down the answer


16mm Robin Wood Light Railway - http://tinyurl.com/16mmNGM-rwlr
Scale Model Technical Services - www.smtsmodels.com

RFS
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Re: DCC control for Tortoise motors

Postby RFS » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:43 pm

As the Switch-8 manual says, the maximum output is 50ma per port, so it won't work the Fulgurex motor if that requires 200ma. In fact your warranty is void if you damage it when using it with point motors that draw more than 40ma. This piece of kit is strictly for Tortoises (and no doubt Cobalts too) as these draw a maximum of 40ma when operating and about 10ma in stall mode.
Robert Smith


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