Directional Lighting (class 58)

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Robbie58
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Directional Lighting (class 58)

Postby Robbie58 » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:38 pm

Hi everyone,

I am doing a bit of experimenting with lighting using DCC, and I have a few questions. I have set up a test bench with a standard Hornby decoder, so it is easy to see what happens when I use a function. I am using hte Elite controller currently.

I was wondering what is the correct way to set up lighting for a loco with two cabs, or a DMU etc. There are two wires for function 0, but only one is on depending on direction of the loco (as I am sure you know). Is it ok to connect two white LEDs and two red LEDs to one colour wire, and then the same for the other colour wire? That would give two whites and two reds on, for either direction.

I was also trying to find some type of suitable material to mount LEDs and other components such as resistors to inside the loco, especially to hold the LEDs in place. Some type of PCB perhaps. I am living in Ireland and am finding locating suppliers and parts difficult. Some other material, such as brass, but something that does not conduct electricity!

The reason I put class 58 in the subject is that I was looking to add headlights to a Hornby 58, however upon opening it up, there is a chunk of metal in the way! has anyone got around this? It is an older model, but unless I do a ot of drilling, grinding and purchasing of minuscule LEDs, I can't see any way of fitting lights to the 58.

I would be grateful for any help. :D

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Flashbang
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Re: Directional Lighting (class 58)

Postby Flashbang » Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:50 am

Hi
You certainly can connect red and white LEDs to the same function wires. So long as you don't overload that function. Many decoders (including the basic Hornby one) have 100 milliamp per function available. This will easily power 9 or 10 LED with suitable series resistors.
If you obtain low current LEDs you will find that 2ma or 3ma is possible per LED.
You need to remember the Blue wire is common positive to all function wiring. White and Yellow are controlled by 'F0' and are also automatically directionally switched. Forward being the white wire and reverse being yellow wire. Green and Purple wires are the third and fourth function outputs. 'F1' and 'F2' normally operating these functions.

So its quite normal to have front white LED and rear red LEDs on the White wire. Rear white LED and front red LEDs on the Yellow wire. This then gives automatic directional controlled lighting once turned on by 'F0'. You can go even further and make the red lights separated controlled so as they can be turn off when pulling a train. Using the Green and Purple wires to supply the reds.
Its actually better to use series resistors of a higher OHM value for the red LEDs than the ones used for the white headlights. I would use one 1/4watt resistor per LED in the coloured wire (which is actually negative) leaving the blue wire to run around all LEDs anode ) positive leads.

This web site has some details on decoder function outputs.....http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.htm#Decoder%20controlled%20lighting

I cant help with the LEDs Maplin is one source. Have you looked at the Express Models DCC lighting kits? http://www.expressmodels.co.uk/acatalog/Head_and_Tail_Lights.html
Broken? It was working correctly when I left it.

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Robbie58
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Re: Directional Lighting (class 58)

Postby Robbie58 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:30 pm

Thanks Flashbang,
I just didn't want to be messing up my lighting and discovering I had made a mistake later on. All this electrical stuff can be a bit overwhelming, and I want to make sure I'm not about to blow something up (again).

I will make a note of that anyway, no doubt it will be a great help to me when I decide to do even more with DCC lighting.

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dazamccoy
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Re: Directional Lighting (class 58)

Postby dazamccoy » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:59 am

I know this post was from eight years ago, did you ever get the lighting installed?

I'm about to do the same to my old midnight freight loco.

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RAFHAAA96
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Re: Directional Lighting (class 58)

Postby RAFHAAA96 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:23 pm

As the light has come back on for this old thread, can I add my two pennorth, for what its worth.

Having tried all sorts of ways to install led lighting to my diesels, I have settled on my standard method.

This involves a bit of veroboard mounted in the middle of the loco roof, which has SMD resistors soldered across the verotracks. 3 wires lead off in 3 directions. 3 to the decoder socket on the chassis (via a plug and socket if you need to disconnect the body) blue, white and yellow. If you want cab lights and more make the green and purple as well.

Leading fore and aft are a blue, white and red wire which attach to the leds, noting the red is cross connect front to back obviously else all the lights at one end will come on.

I have tried SMD leds but they are too fiddly for my eyes and hands, so I stick with regular leds, either separate white and red or 3-legged white/red combo leds (common anode type).

At each end of the body I drill for the leds and just bend the legs as both my circuit and installation support and solder them together as required. As there will be lots of bare metal about I use UHU or hot glue as insulation after I attach the resistor board wires.

Some pictures attached to give you the idea. Apologies but the second picture refuses to load the right way up from an iPad.

5589A067-4F90-438F-983B-DFD5512FB539.jpeg


04CFFE9E-BF4E-4EC4-93B9-C3EF2985AC0E.jpeg
Last edited by RAFHAAA96 on Sat May 05, 2018 9:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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dazamccoy
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Re: Directional Lighting (class 58)

Postby dazamccoy » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:39 pm

Great stuff. Everyone seems so helpful on here.

Thank you.


04CFFE9E-BF4E-4EC4-93B9-C3EF2985AC0E.jpeg
04CFFE9E-BF4E-4EC4-93B9-C3EF2985AC0E.jpeg (50.12 KiB) Viewed 356 times

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dazamccoy
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Re: Directional Lighting (class 58)

Postby dazamccoy » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:57 pm

I think i'll start off with a lighting kit, saying its my first attempt. Then work my way up from there. I had done an over the top paint job using a black wash over the whole loco. I wish I had taken a before photo, but this is the result after using some neat Dettol antiseptic on a cotton bud to remove almost all of the black wash.

class 58.JPG


I'm getting some paints and plan to weather the bogies, add a little bit of extra weight and add a lighting kit from express models.

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dazamccoy
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Re: Directional Lighting (class 58)

Postby dazamccoy » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:33 pm

The slow running is really nice with DCC installed.

https://youtu.be/Qj6zOGFh5VU

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dazamccoy
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Re: Directional Lighting (class 58)

Postby dazamccoy » Wed May 02, 2018 5:39 pm

My Lighting kit from Express models arrived today, It looks pretty straightforward. I took the class 58 apart so I could paint the inside of the cab black and stop any light bleeding out. I didn't even realise the 58 has rudimentary cab detailing cast out of metal to give the model weight at each end.

IMG_5037.JPG


I'm going to have to remove some of this metal in order to fit the lights inside. Time to get the hacksaw out.

remove this.JPG


I'm going to paint the inside completely black apart from the windows.

IMG_3871.JPG


I also took the opportunity to paint a few components on the front of the cab before I drill the lights out.

IMG_8778.JPG
Attachments
IMG_3449.JPG

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Roger (RJ)
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Re: Directional Lighting (class 58)

Postby Roger (RJ) » Wed May 02, 2018 7:31 pm

When you drill the lights out, use a slow speed drill to avoid slipping out of position and also melting the plastic.. I've done it and it looks awful. Never did complete the installation. An Archimedes drill works well.

Hope I'm not teaching granny how to suck eggs.

EDIT. Looks like my advice was a bit late judging by the next pictures (posted while I was typing)
Last edited by Roger (RJ) on Wed May 02, 2018 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dazamccoy
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Re: Directional Lighting (class 58)

Postby dazamccoy » Wed May 02, 2018 7:32 pm

Here goes nothing!

0.8mm pilot holes, a little bit off centre, but it's my first time.
pilot holes.JPG


Then I got the hacksaw out :P I had to remove some of the metal weight to allow room for the lights.
metal removed.JPG

side removed.JPG


A V shaped hole was sawed in to the bottom of the weight to allow wires to pass through.

space for wires.JPG


Then I gave the weights some silver spray to lighten them up a little. I didn't even know there was cab detail until i removed them.

silver  ab.JPG

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dazamccoy
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Re: Directional Lighting (class 58)

Postby dazamccoy » Wed May 02, 2018 9:22 pm

Well... That was fiddley and kinda fun/scary hahah.

1st double light cluster in.

1st light.JPG


All the lights completed on one end.

All lights in one end.JPG


This is a neat little circuit board that Express models make. Very tidy.

Lighting circuit.JPG


It's a bit rough around the edges, that's why I started with this model. A learning experience! I'll try to match the colour a bit better around the edges of the lights. Still not too bad for my first attempt.

Double cabing.JPG


I'm going to leave the wiring until tomorrow and prey that I haven't damaged the LEDs while installing them. Wish me luck.

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dazamccoy
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Re: Directional Lighting (class 58)

Postby dazamccoy » Wed May 02, 2018 10:18 pm

Roger (RJ) wrote:When you drill the lights out, use a slow speed drill to avoid slipping out of position and also melting the plastic.. I've done it and it looks awful. Never did complete the installation. An Archimedes drill works well.

Hope I'm not teaching granny how to suck eggs.

EDIT. Looks like my advice was a bit late judging by the next pictures (posted while I was typing)


Thanks for the advice, I used used a vice drill from the start.

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Peterm
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Re: Directional Lighting (class 58)

Postby Peterm » Thu May 03, 2018 12:03 am

Coming on nicely. My first attempt was not as good as I would have liked, but my second wasn't much better. :roll:
Pete.

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dazamccoy
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Re: Directional Lighting (class 58)

Postby dazamccoy » Fri May 04, 2018 6:27 pm

I have seen the light!!!!!


https://youtu.be/px9ewB2i0Pk

I had a six function decoder, so i decided to have independent control over the head and tail lights. Now i just need to put everything back together.


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