New Street Station

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townie
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New Street Station

Postby townie » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:52 am

I am new to modelling, I worked for the railways most of my life. I have now retired so thought I would do something I love. My intensions are to build a model of New st 1940s 50s when it had the roof on. I intend to build it in 00 gauge. I was wondering if anyone knew what size baseboard I would need. The model will include the turntable. Any information will be appreciated Thank you.

b308
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Re: New Street Station

Postby b308 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:57 am

Damn big I'd have thought! It was actually two stations back in those days, the old LNWR and MR ones side by side with a street down the middle. If you check out the New Street thread that's going and ask Jim S-W he'd be able to tell you the size as his is in 4mm scale, though P4, but the size will be the same!

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24926&hilit=new+street+p4+birmingham+new+street

townie
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Re: New Street Station

Postby townie » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:14 am

Okay thanks will do. I wanted to build Curzon Street goods yard, but unfortunately I cant find enough photos.

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alex3410
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Re: New Street Station

Postby alex3410 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:18 am

do you mean a model of just the station or a model station on a layout? - just checking :lol:

Anyway if its the layout it might be a better idea to start with what size you can fit into the space you have available, that way you can plan the track arrangement at the same time to stop you trying to squeeze it in after the station area is assigned

townie
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Re: New Street Station

Postby townie » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:27 am

It will be from the South Stour/Derby tunnels to Gloucester/North Stour tunnels not forgetting the turn table. Hope this helps, time and space not really a problem. I looked at the thread you suggested but it wont let me look at the images. Thank you.

ParkeNd
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Re: New Street Station

Postby ParkeNd » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:28 am

It's going to depend on how much of New Street Station you intend to build - and even more on how much space you have. To literally scale it at 4mm to the foot from a satellite view would undoubtedly produce terrifying dimensions. For instance my own layout of a Forest of Dean station of two platforms in N gauge with scale length platforms but liberties taken with distances of the surrounds would swell from 7ft 6ins x 2ft 6 ins to 15 ft X 5 ft if built in OO which I would suspect is much bigger than most people's domestic OO layouts

So unless you have perhaps a 30 foot purpose built outbuilding then you are going to need to "capture the essence" of New Street Station by picking a distinctive part of the station and then fitting it into the space you have.

As far as I can see Jim S W says in his thread that his layout "from tunnel mouth to tunnel mouth" is 22 feet long without fiddle yards. To have an entry into the 22 feet and a similar size exit for reduced length trains of even 6 feet in length would suggest an overall length of 34 ft or more - maybe up to 40 ft.

townie
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Re: New Street Station

Postby townie » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:51 am

All I am planning is the station with just the fascia of the hotel, around 15 lines with Queens drive. I just cant see it being 30ft. I was thinking more along the lines of 8x6. It will be live but with just shunting duties. The model wont go past the tunnels.

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Re: New Street Station

Postby ParkeNd » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:47 am

Others need to provide some input now. If you consider train movement (you say it will be live) then a loco with four coaches would start with it's tail at one edge of the board and move just far enough before the loco ran off the other end of the board for it's tail to reach the centre of the board. I could not build my little two platform country branch station in OO in 8 ft length.

N gauge would greatly increase the scope but so many who model OO would not even consider it - wrongly in my opinion.

b308
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Re: New Street Station

Postby b308 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:55 am

With regards to that link, try further into the thread, the early photos don't work but the later ones do!

townie wrote:All I am planning is the station with just the fascia of the hotel, around 15 lines with Queens drive. I just cant see it being 30ft. I was thinking more along the lines of 8x6. It will be live but with just shunting duties. The model wont go past the tunnels.


Certainly not in OO or N, in Z scale perhaps!

New St Platform lengths:

http://www.simsig.co.uk/index.php?optio ... 4&Itemid=0

The longest is platform 1 at 338m, that equates to 14.45 feet in 4mm scale. On top of that you have the points and track before the tunnels at each end, say another 5 feet, so you are talking 20 feet before adding any fiddle yards (for a full length train that's another 12 foot at each end minimum) or curves on each end!

Z scale (1:220) it comes out at about 5ft plus the throats, say 6ft, so an 8x6 would be feasible if you could build your own points.

I think you are seriously underestimating the size of the Real Thing! :)

townie
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Re: New Street Station

Postby townie » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:27 am

Perhaps I have over estimated my ambitions who knows, but I believe I can do this in 8x6 baseboard. As for platform 1 I can make that within 6ft including the water tower. The building may not be all in 00 scale but they will be there. Thank you for all the advice. The points will be station side of the tunnels, the tunnels will go no where. If anyone knows the best place to get a Sundeala baseboard from it would be appreciated. I live in the Midlands Thank you.

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Bufferstop
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Re: New Street Station

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:30 am

New Street, even. Just part of the old station will be big. In the sixties I spent a lot of time measuring and drawing chalk outlines on the slab once it was in place, just to visualise what we would be working on once it was built. The roofs of the old stations covered a much bigger area than the 1960s deck, more like the area of the new complex. Even in N, if you intend to run full length trains you are going to end up with a sectional model that can only be erected in a sports hall or similar. There have been previous models of the station, there was an outdoor version built almost concurrent with the sixties version but I've not come across a full scale representation of the pre WW2 structure. It's probably due to the major development of full scenic modelling not getting going until after the loss of the roof of the LNWR station.
By the way, despite our careful measuring the cable duct to the travel centre very nearly came out in the bridge level gents.
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townie
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Re: New Street Station

Postby townie » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:50 am

Hi everyone thank you for all the replies. There will be no movements apart from shunting locos. Carriages and freight will be dormant on platforms.

b308
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Re: New Street Station

Postby b308 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:55 am

townie wrote:Perhaps I have over estimated my ambitions who knows, but I believe I can do this in 8x6 baseboard. As for platform 1 I can make that within 6ft including the water tower. The building may not be all in 00 scale but they will be there. Thank you for all the advice. The points will be station side of the tunnels, the tunnels will go no where. If anyone knows the best place to get a Sundeala baseboard from it would be appreciated. I live in the Midlands Thank you.


I'll be blunt, then, you can't do Birmingham New Street in OO scale in an 8x6 space. Period.


However, most people condense the railway a lot to make it fit, but it depends on what you want to see. A 6ft platform will allow you a 5 or six coach train (based on 60ft carriages and a tender loco), that will give a good impression of a long train. The issue is that the 6ft does not include the station throats at either end where all the points are located, that will add another 2.5ft at each end, then there's either curves or fiddle yards on top of that.

Personally, in that sort of space I'd consider a Freelance (i.e. not based on any particular station) layout where you'd have a station on a gradual curve down the 8ft section, in a cutting like New St, and having 4 or 5 platforms. You can include buildings based on the original and with a fiddle yard on the "back" 8ft length.

This one from RMWeb gives some sort of idea:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/upload ... 904042.gif


With regard to baseboards please check the NRM website for basic details and to the section of the forum about what materials you can use to make them. Sundeala is only one of the types of wood you can use and not the most popular for several reasons. Most people tend to use plywood, chipboard or MDF all of which are available at DIY and Timber Merchants all over the Midlands.
Last edited by b308 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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luckymucklebackit
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Re: New Street Station

Postby luckymucklebackit » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:58 am

As you are new to the hobby, can I suggest building a small trial layout before launching into what would be an epic. I found this online Image

You can see some complex pointwork that I would suggest is not for a beginner. Have you thought of Moor Street?

Consider this
1) Have you thought about the electrics, even to run shunting locos about it will need an impressive control panel and lot of point motors there that will need wired.
2) All your buildings will need to be scratch built, to make a decent job of that you would need a team of modellers, assuming you have a good source of photographs and plans to show what needs to be built
3) It will not fit on an 8 x 6 board

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b308
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Re: New Street Station

Postby b308 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:03 pm

Going on from Jim's comments you could just do one end of the station like someone else did on here (I believe their's was based on the gap between the two tunnels on the south end). You could model the station throat at the North end, with just the platforms sticking out). It would still need some reductions and modifications to fit in an 8x6 but would be feasible, though you'd probably have to do it on a curve to fit into an 8x6.


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