inspirations, for model bridges

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0121modeller
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Re: inspirations, for model bridges

Postby 0121modeller » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:19 pm

madmack wrote:have ever made bridges for order as i have planned a n gauge layout & have a of set triangle shaped bridge on it

I dont build to order for others, only for myself , but with the exception of the bridge I'm currently modelling for a friend/member of this forum, as building this serves the "shows you how" aspect which is intended to inspire yourself & others.

The rail bridge you describe sounds like a Warren pattern /truss girder, the basis not sure about N gauge, but to build this in 00 would be a Peco LK11 (I think, or use peco's N gauge version if its N gauge you're modelling) ,that in itself would be fairly easy to build as it is, as you'd only need to make your own base for trackbed, but I say the basis as I try to make things more realistic by adding other componants, for example the 2 girders supplied in box for normally making 1 bridge, those 2 girders would need be assembled side-by-side & have additional truss girder profiles from plastruct (OWTS-6) placed inbetween girders, so I'd need to have 2 packs (4 side girders) for 1 bridge & lots of plastruct OWTS-6 & other components, some have overhead bracing girders, these are'nt supplied, so these would need to be made out of plastruct or similar, all the extra's needed total up to being very expensive, but achieving something as realistic as possible is the idea.
See photo's below;
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A huge span due to the skewed angle, the strength of this bridge design is in its height factor of assembled steel girder profiles.

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2x Peco girders side-by-side, an abandoned / unfinished project that I'd started.

Hope this gives you some idea's Mack, I look forward to seeing some bridge building from you sometime in the near future :wink:

_____________________________________________________________________________

I've been working on the underside of plate girder part of bridge today, I had the option weather to do this or not, as the underside is something that generally wont be noticed in most photograpic poses..., most.... :lol:
Also, as part of the "shows you how" aspect intention, I thought it would be a nice idea to model the underside to a basic degree.

Photo's of the bridge underside & how I did this, will be revealed in my next post in a short while :)

Dave.
Last edited by 0121modeller on Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: inspirations, for model bridges

Postby 0121modeller » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:36 pm

More underside inclusion;
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I wanted to replicate something like this underside detailing....,
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...heres the result above,

this is how I did it, below,
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Plastruct "I" girders BFS8 & BFS12 were used as they fit into each other nicely. The smaller profile BFS8 being the cross bracing girders & assembled as shown below;
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Each of the BFS12 longditudal girders were positioned in such a way that they'de rest upon central supporting vertical girders, some BFS8 cross girders were plastic welded into position. I used UHU to glue the BFS12 to the plywood.
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Nearest to the 4 main outer removable girders I cut some plasticard sheet for support of cross girders, these wont be fixed to 4 outermost girders, notice how the plasticard sheet fits around main outer girder fixing blocks.

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then plastic welded BFS8 cross girders...
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Re: inspirations, for model bridges

Postby 0121modeller » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:03 pm

Continued from my above post
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Humbrol matt 66 was used "smear & wipe" to mortar red brickwork , I deliberately used 7mm=ft slaters brick plastikard as it makes the feature of bricks & mortaring more obvious.
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I rolled & wrapped enough brickwork for both outermost girders jack arched brick infils
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Using a 20mm thick dowel & secured with elastic band for 20 minuits.
Meanwhile, I sprayed underside with halfords plastic primer, then gave a spray of Railmatch 1403 as seen below.
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I then cut jack arch infills to 24mm this then curves in to fit 22mm space inbetween each cross girder.
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Sliding them in...
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Once the jack arches were all in place I re-fitted the 4 main outerside plate girders.
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My camera is positioned level on bench, this photo clearly shows the underside of that bridge, so photo would'nt look quite right without those underside girders added :D ,
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Dave.
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Re: inspirations, for model bridges

Postby markh » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:18 pm

well thats ok
just wanted to know are there easy to build from scratch
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Re: inspirations, for model bridges

Postby SouthernBoy » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:04 pm

Very neat the way the jack arches slide into and are held in place by the girders. And overall very instructive posts :)

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Re: inspirations, for model bridges

Postby 0121modeller » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:30 am

SouthernBoy wrote:Very neat the way the jack arches slide into and are held in place by the girders. And overall very instructive posts :)

Thanks Mark :D

madmack wrote:well thats ok
just wanted to know are there easy to build from scratch

Mack, The bridge you describe in N gauge need not be built from scratch, Peco make the main girder sides for the bridge you describe, all you basically need to do is insert a suitable trackbed into the inner-most grooves, the grooves are only thin, so I'd use 60 thou' Slaters Plastikard (or whatever thickness fits into groove) , brace the underside crossways using Plastruct HFS3 "H" girders spaced matching to each vertical girder, as in real bridge the cross girders are present to brace & connect both main outer girders & support the base, same principle as for the model bridge really.

I'll always use Revel Contacta or similar liquid poly, Plastic weld, M.E.K. etc, rather than using Polystyrene cement sold in small squeezy tubes, horrible stuff IMO, & often makes an untidy join to a model no matter how careful you are at trying to dispense just the right amount :x .

You just need to cut base wide enough for single track or double track, also decide if the bridge will need to be at a skewed angle.

For N gauge, make sure all girder ends rest upon no less than 3mm on each abutment bedstone, bridge girders never rest on just bricks, as the compostion of concrete or stone for bedstones is much more stable under pressure loads than brick.

Dave.
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Re: inspirations, for model bridges

Postby 0121modeller » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:38 am

My brother came around to visit the other day.
He shared his photos with me on the subject of his canal cycling around the Birmingham & Wolverhapton area, .

Here's just a couple on this bridge thread, as most of the pictures he gave me are canal near to railways related , as well as some of my own collection of canal photos, I'll soon start an "inspirations for modelling canals" thread.
ADD / EDIT click link for above mentioned :) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32185

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The approach to a sort of *intersection bridge (*bridge over bridge / involving more than 1 bridge).
The rail line you can see (LH side of photo retaining wall) is the Birmingham to Wolverhampton WCML. The canal is the "main line" canal AKA "BCN" (Birmingham Canal Navigations).

Another canal is carried over to top by the brick arches, this I think is known as the old canal line from B'ham to Wolverhampton, both these canals are connected by 2 or 3 locks further back out of sight, & the old line uses more locks as to navigate its winding path , where-as the "main line" canal route is more direct & virtually straight using cuttings & tunnels.

An extremely good & well detailed fold out map to obtain on the complete network of current West midlands canals is "Birmingham Canal Navigations" , Sadly currently out of print, my brother still has mine so I must remember get it back soon.

Canals scenes similar to this are a fantastic source of modelling inspiration & ideas, as, where there's a canal theres also often a rail line nearby alongside , as canals & railways were once primary forms of transport for industry, conveyance of goods etc.
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Heres the topside view of the old canal route being carried over main line canal route.
A section of the M5 motorway towers above.
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Last edited by 0121modeller on Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: inspirations, for model bridges

Postby 0121modeller » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:37 am

The Railbridge project I've been working on during the last few weeks featured in this thread is now completed, It can be seen in this link ; viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30840&start=30#p404571

On my return from Wolverhampton back to Birmingham earlier yesterday I chose to take an alternative route via Walsall as to investigate possible clues to old rail routes.

On the A449 southbound were these bridges that crossed over the dual carriageway;
I parked my car up somewhere suitable as to obtain a few photo's :D
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Just a common plate girder bridge with cantilevered paraphet.

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The other half of carriageway had this bridge , having a rather different design I had the over-whelming urge to take a closer look :shock: . :lol:
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Cross girders with concrete infills supporting double track line,
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At first , a large profile beam bridge came to my mind , no rivets , just bolts visible for those cross girders,
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& I zoomed my camera for a closer shot of the inner side, the girder has an inner profile of depth & width for strength, notice those steel cover plates for maintenance & inspection access as box girder bridges would have.
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Re: inspirations, for model bridges

Postby 0121modeller » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:27 pm

I can recommend a what I thought a very interesting DVD on the subject of bridges, Behind the Scenes vol 3 is a documentry mainly consisting of old film footage of cranes removing & installing girders.
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Re: inspirations, for model bridges

Postby Zunnan » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:15 pm

Its about time I contributed to this thread again being as the photos are really mounting up again! :lol:

Pennsnett Branch crossing of the Stourbridge Canal.

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Its not very often that you find a railway bridge that is decaying so much that there is almost as much of it in the canal as there is above it! In both of the above photographs you can see traces of timber in the water. Needless to say, this bridge in its state of self destruction is an absolutely fantastic example of bridge construction, it is basically showing you its steel skeleton with none of that fancy woodwork getting the way.

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Your eyes aren't decieving you, those really are rails crossing the bridge...

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Dudley Road/High Street crossing of the Pennsnett Branch.

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Highly overgrown, making photographing this structure difficult. However, vandals do sometimes (very rarely) have their uses, and those steel railings blocking the bridge underside have been breached allowing direct access to the support structure below.

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Baddesley Viaduct.

I've given some detail on this bridge in my disused railways thread, but this bridge really is spectacular enough to do all the talking for itself.

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And some slightly more detailed underside shots.

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Baddesley Branch crossing of Speedwell Lane

Another one from my disused railways thread that belongs here. This is a pleasing plate girder bridge on sandstone abutments that have had some significant repair work carried out as evidenced by the amount of engineering brick used where there would otherwise have been stone.

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Re: inspirations, for model bridges

Postby poindexter » Tue May 17, 2011 10:42 pm

Cracking thread. Very informative and well explained. A bridge too far for my level of modelling :shock: . But something to aspire to.

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Re: inspirations, for model bridges

Postby 0121modeller » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:17 am

Thanks PD :D
More recent bridges
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The 5ft width diameter of the huge concrete pillars beneath spagetti junction.
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Box profile welded with diagonal braceings, these & many other girder assemblies, bridge supports & components beneath spagetti junction where on-going strengthening is
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Warren pattern / truss girder bridge sections under spagetti.
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A series of 4 bridges, this recently installed beam girder & concrete bridge here carries the heartlands spineroad (A47) in Saltley/Nechells, Birmingham.
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The tip of my steel tape measure has magnets , the girder beam measures just under 4ft high , plastruct BFS 12 or BFS14 should do for 00 scale.
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Here's a nice plate girder with 20"wide cantilevered paraphet.
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"A" type or "Z" type girder bridge, not sure which this is, they're rather similar in design.

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Underside of that plate girder bridge does'nt look too healthy.
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Rusty !!

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A dead tree root here :shock:
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Bridge #4 on the Grand union canal, due to it's condition I would think this carries a rail line that's not in use.

Dave.
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Re: inspirations, for model bridges

Postby SouthernBoy » Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:50 pm

Westminster Bridge Road: Railway Bridge

Yesterday morning I set out to photograph the long-gone route of the London Necropolis Railway through Brookwood Cemetery (link here).
Whilst at Waterloo I thought I'd quickly get a picture of the London Necropolis Railway terminus in Westminster Bridge Road.

And here it is.

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But whilst there, I spotted the massive girders under this bridge and decided to come back in the evening and investigate further.


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To get an idea of the geography here's a map.

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Top left (in green) is the London Necropolis Railway terminus and route out onto the main lines.
In orange you can see the route Westminster Bridge Road and Lower Marsh take under the main lines from Waterloo station and the the now defunct Eurostar platforms.
A second parallel tunnel serves Station Approach Road, with a small 'cut-through' to Westminster Bridge Road half way along.


So here we are back in the evening. Crossing from lower-right to the left distance is Lower Marsh, and the main road is Westminster Bridge Road.
The bridge is situated between 'Music Hall Viaduct' on the left and 'Waterloo Viaduct' on the right.


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The first section of girders are fairly standard ...

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... but it's these huge, curved girders that really caught my eye. That's good old-fashioned, solid, Victorian engineering for you :)

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The picture below shows where the older bridge on the left meets the more recent structure built to carry the Eurostar platforms on the right.


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The newer structure is much less interesting to look at.

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So here we are on the other side looking up at the Eurostar platforms ...

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... just to the left is Station Approach Road. It's dark, dank and quite foreboding. It's clearly an 'access road' as there's just one very narrow pavement on the left.

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Looking back, the cut-through to Westminster Bridge Road is on the left.

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And a welcome glimpse of daylight and fresh air. Here the road turns sharp left and takes an incline running parallel with the southern wall of Waterloo station.

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And finally here we are back in more civilised surroundings, looking up Station Approach Road toward Waterloo station.

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The starting point to this journey (the junction of Lower Marsh and Westminster Bridge Road) is literally a few yards behind where this picture is taken.

Well I hope the pictures are of interest and maybe of inspiration to anyone modelling large-scale bridges :)

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Re: inspirations, for model bridges

Postby 0121modeller » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:26 am

Inspiring photo's Mark, Thanks for posting :D
That 4th photo with lattice/warren pattern bridge spanning 2 diverging roads at an angle is very inspiring, modelling that scene or something similar would be a showpiece feature on a layout.

The underside detail of the arched plate girders are especially nice, not a common design I think, but that adds to the appealling scene, theres a simillar underside at a bridge near B'ham Snow Hill , a nice feature as to model as such features catch the attention of the viewer & so enhance a layout so much, so its well worth the effort of extra modelling.
I'll make a point of paying more attention touring & photographing the topside of London during my next visit on the tubes, I agree, some fascinating bridges & intersections :)

Dave.
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Re: inspirations, for model bridges

Postby Zunnan » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:55 pm

Fantastic pics there Mark, its good to see that bridge obsessiveness is contageous. I now expect to see a fully scaled down version appearing on Frankland I hope you know! :lol:

Now that the scenery comp is over I'll air what I was working on. If you go up the page to my posting you'll see a little bridge crossing a brook, better known as Baddesley Viaduct ~

I got the basic measurements using Google Earth and pacing between the piers underneath the real thing, and using this I worked out the basic footprint for the diorama to occupy almost the maximum permitted footprint. Then I simply attacked some loft insulating board and carved it into the basic shape of the embankments.

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It doesn't really look that big like this, and I thought as much at this point, so I mocked up the bridge deck using a suitable piece of timber and posed a train on it.

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Now its looking a bit bigger!


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My usual method for building abutments is to build a very basic ply skeleton.

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The skeleton then forms the basis for the plasticard to be fixed to. This was the state of play after one day of construction. The decorative arch was incredibly simple to do, measure the inside diameter of the arch you are using and mark this on to the piece of plasticard it is to be cut into. Cut up to the location of the arch ring and snap the waste out, then offer the arch moulding up and mark the area of the stonework which needs flattening and gently carve away the material until the arch fits snugly. Glue it in place and then cut away the material left inside the arch and file it back, then if you require you can also carve the course lines into it where the cut plastic is otherwise a flat edge.

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Next to do is the string course. Using suitably sized pieces of styrene build up the basic structure for the piece, then when the glue has set hard enough you can carve it to the desired profile using filler where required as pieces of the string course fit together around the ply skeleton.

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With the string course cobbled together start working upwards. The real bridge has a missing pilaster on this abutment with the parapet partly rebuilt in brick. This was replicated by cutting the stone plasticard away along the mortar lines and directly replacing it with brick plasticard. Coping and capstones are then added on top in exactly the same manner as the string course, styrene built up to the basic profile and then carved into shape.

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This series of photos shows the basic process used in producing the brick repairs to the sandstone. This time it is for the pier tops, all of which on the real thing exhibit a significant amount of repair work. The process of building the piers is exactly the same as for the abutments, the basic shape is made from ply and then skinned with plasticard.

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When the piers and abutments were structurally completed they were given a coat of red oxide primer. This was then washed over with a flesh colour to give the mortar colour in the deeper detail. The stone was then drybrushed with a khaki coloured base coat and the brick repair was picked out with Railmatch 'Roof dirt', which is the losest match to engineering blue brick that I have yet found. When dry brushed over a red primer base the roof dirt leaves some of the red showing through which if you look closely at a lot of this type of brickwork is present on the real thing.

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Turning away from the structurally complete abutments and piers, attention now turns to the girders. This bridge was initially intended to be built for the scenery comp, and one of the stipulations was that materials be available from the NRM shop, so with this in mind I dug out some N Gauge Knightwing girders as they are very close to being scale size for this bridge in 00. Only the very ends of the girder moulding were cut away.

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Cutting the ends off the moulding allowed me to join the girders as per the prototype, and also allowed me to use the base plate of the kit itself to tie the girders together at the weak points. Basically the whole bridge deck was built upside down for its intended use.

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With the girder decking complete and cut to the desired overall length the next step was to cut and fix the timber deck in place. The real thing uses 9" by 6" timbers so I used 3.2mm by 2mm styrene cut to length, a 'chopper' really helps to do a bulk job here! I also made up a jig to accurately lay the timber deck, this really made the process very easy indeed!

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The next tediously repetetive job was the construction of the handrail stanchions, again a job for the chopper! Holes were then drilled to accept the handrail using a small spring clamp to keep a uniform distance between the holes.

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A ballast board was then attached to the bridge deck to give the stanchions that bit more plastic to adhere to as well as giving them a fixed line to follow. With the handrails built it was out with the chopper again to cut another round of handrail supports which project below the timber deck and attach to the girder on every second gusset. Once dry the excess at the ends was removed and filed flat.

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With one week to go until the deadline for the competition this was the state of play. Sandstone given two lighter shades of dry brushing to pick out some of the moulded detail in the plasticard, bridge deck painted and just the last abutment to paint up. All that is required to complete is the scenic scatter and the stream running below, which would probably take a day or so to complete each.

Considering it only took me 3 weeks to get this far I am quite pleased with the result and would have probably finished it well within the original deadline for the scenery competition. Progress is on hold with completing it though as my MRC discuss building a modular layout, this bridge is now intended to form a part of that layout.


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