Plywood Baseboard, will it delaminate with ballast or not

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retiredoperator
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Plywood Baseboard, will it delaminate with ballast or not

Postby retiredoperator » Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:24 am

Hi Modellers I have been doing a lot ( WAY TOO much) thinking during the "Summer Break", about my personal layout, being a "winter sport", and have been visiting model exhibitions , where I have been discussing exhibitors layouts. During this time several opinions (some dubious??) about the effects of Ballasting on Plywood, does Plywood delaminate indoors after ballasting or not?? and if it does would anyone please tell me how to avoid that happening?? Primer, Emulsion, (Water based/ Oil based??) Varnish, Shellac, Fence Paint, you name it, and that was someones idea.
Happy Modelling Kev

b308
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Re: Plywood Baseboard, will it delaminate with ballast or no

Postby b308 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:37 am

Never has with me and I've been using it for years. Most woods will react to lots of water so the likes of chipboard, Sundeala, MDF, etc will expand which would be just as bad. You can always use "marine ply" which is made to be used in water if you are worried but it costs more. Personally I have never bothered.

ParkeNd
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Re: Plywood Baseboard, will it delaminate with ballast or no

Postby ParkeNd » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:08 am

By using an eye dropper it is easily possible to use enough water/PVA/Fairy Liquid mixture to just work through the ballast rather than giving it a through hosing down. With me MDF did not swell or distort in any way - but it did take longer to ballast than people seem to want nowadays.

Marine birch ply or exterior ply is probably the ultimate in 9mm or 12mm thicknesses - but an 8x4 sheet before being attacked by a saw can cost £65 per sheet.

I would say that applying the liquid mixture precisely 9 inches of track per day, rather than by the bucket over the whole layout in one go is the answer, then almost any surface will have no problems. But it needs patience which seems not to be a 2015 commodity. :o

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Bufferstop
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Re: Plywood Baseboard, will it delaminate with ballast or no

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:39 am

If the advice to seal the board when built is followed, the volume of water involved in ballasting (and in building scenery!) is unlikely to penetrate through to the wood. I don't think there's any need to worry about it.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

Dad-1
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Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Plywood Baseboard, will it delaminate with ballast or no

Postby Dad-1 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:52 pm

I usually say seal your boards first with a varnish, it tends to stabilise any moisture content
preventing excessive drying, or taking in atmospheric moisture let alone ballasting, or
grass laying moisture.
Having said that I've often been to impatient and quite honestly I've had few problems using
bare ply.
I agree with ParkeNd that you need to work on small sections at a time. I call it stitching, where
I do anything up to 12", leave a similar length gap and do another 'stitch'. DO NOT disturb in any
way for at least 24 hours in a dry environment, longer in an unheated garage at this time of the
year. Then fill in the gaps when your first applications are dried out.

As to winter in garages, I once had an application that took 10 days to dry out and even then it left
quite a white stain. The moral - don't do in cold damp conditions - simples !!

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

retiredoperator
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:25 am

Re: Plywood Baseboard, will it delaminate with ballast or no

Postby retiredoperator » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:13 pm

Hi b308 Thank you for your answer, but as far as Marine Ply is concerned, seems a good idea?? But if you add on the price of cutting(I would hate to mess that up, and it would keep me awake at night)
it would be too dear :shock: Could get better value buying more stock. Happy modelling Kev

retiredoperator
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:25 am

Re: Plywood Baseboard, will it delaminate with ballast or no

Postby retiredoperator » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:21 pm

Hi parkeNd Thank you, all I can say is similar to the answer to "b308" , "If I was a rich man" £65.00 plus cutting. But the eye dropper seems okay, but a bit like "Watching Paint Dry"??
And my eyes would be Dropping off to Sleep before I got anywhere. happy modelling Kev

ParkeNd
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Re: Plywood Baseboard, will it delaminate with ballast or no

Postby ParkeNd » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:28 pm

Hi Kev,

One point and one question.

1. How would spending more money on 1/2 an extra loco (£65) improve the rigidity, stability, running qualities of your track, and long term appearance of your layout?

2. Ballasting is part of modelling and takes patience - unless you use foam ballast rolls. How long were you planning to take with your ballasting?

retiredoperator
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Re: Plywood Baseboard, will it delaminate with ballast or no

Postby retiredoperator » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:35 pm

Hi Bufferstop Seal it it first, a bit k like "Be Prepared" and a stitch in time, but, excellent advice all the same. I bet that there are many sad modellers that have found that out too late.
Anyway now that I have asked the question I best pop down to the nearest D I Y shop and buy the Varnish happy modelling Kev

retiredoperator
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Re: Plywood Baseboard, will it delaminate with ballast or no

Postby retiredoperator » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:47 pm

Hi parkeNd True! You have hit the nail "Square " on the head. But my last attempt at model railways was "40 odd years ago", other people probably had the time to do it, but I never did.
That is the very reason that I have been asking everyone that question, now, if I knew it then ?? I would probably given up everything else for model railways, rather than everything else giving me up :wink:
When you have got it?? happy modelling Kev

retiredoperator
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:25 am

Re: Plywood Baseboard, will it delaminate with ballast or no

Postby retiredoperator » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:54 pm

Hi Dad-1 Thank you, again "Be Prepared". It does seem like the "Ayes Have It" :wink: I only wish that I had done the Varnishing instead of "Asking everyone that same question".
happy modelling Kev

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bike2steam
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Re: Plywood Baseboard, will it delaminate with ballast or no

Postby bike2steam » Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:46 pm

Modern good quality exterior ply is as good as marine ply, but don't buy cheap rubbish from diy stores, get it from a reputable timber merchant. I make my baseboards from 9mm thick ply, and when the job is done, slap on a good coat of sanding-sealer. I don't use pva for ballast, but use thinned water-based wood stain instead, using the right shades makes it unnecessary to paint, and keep the sharp edge profile to the ballast, not an 'orrible porridge effect as you get with pva, and paint. :)

retiredoperator
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:25 am

Re: Plywood Baseboard, will it delaminate with ballast or no

Postby retiredoperator » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:49 pm

Hi bike2steam When I said D I Y shop, I really meant "Timber Yard", and that is where I go and for everything else "Screwfix". London is full of such shops. happy modelling Kev


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