Derry's Yard - A Set-Track shunting loop Project
Derry's Yard - A Set-Track shunting loop Project
A change of name, and here we have the new description of why.
There comes a time when you want to do something, but have stacks of 'stuff' and don't feel inclined to buy any
more.
I'm sitting on 30-40 old Peco set-track points, loads of set-track rails, both various straights and a few curves so
time to use some. I have virtually no space for a 'proper' layout and anyway have found I enjoy driving shunting
layouts best of all. You could ask why ? Well with a shunting layout from powering up you're having to think of
where and how can you achieve the designated instructions for wagon order.
I've now built two of the classic inglenook 5,3,3, shunting layouts, one right hand, the other left hand, so what
can I do that's new.
I still don't know how it'll work out, but the track plan on my last decent 10" wide, but 48" long piece of ply has
a loop to force the driver to collect wagons from each end. I've had to use set-track points otherwise I couldn't
get in the available length. This gives problem 1) very slow running by 0-4-0, or more likely 0-6-0 locos over insulated
dead frog points. The ride over these is horrendous as wagon wheels drop into the common crossing void. Now I
think Peco may have modified clearances between the current product and these old ones as I CAN run slowly over
set-track points on my St Oval roundy-roundy. However this is working with what you have !!
I decided to place slivers of thin plasticard at the base of the common crossing and as all the wagons I intend to use
on this are old Mainline where the plastic wheels are being changed to Hornby metal I should be able to let the deep
flanges bottom out, hence no jolts from the drop.
O.K too much written word, let's have a picture, or two. The modified point common crossing first.
Then the basic track plan.
More to follow, unless it goes so wrong it's ditched !!
Geoff T.
There comes a time when you want to do something, but have stacks of 'stuff' and don't feel inclined to buy any
more.
I'm sitting on 30-40 old Peco set-track points, loads of set-track rails, both various straights and a few curves so
time to use some. I have virtually no space for a 'proper' layout and anyway have found I enjoy driving shunting
layouts best of all. You could ask why ? Well with a shunting layout from powering up you're having to think of
where and how can you achieve the designated instructions for wagon order.
I've now built two of the classic inglenook 5,3,3, shunting layouts, one right hand, the other left hand, so what
can I do that's new.
I still don't know how it'll work out, but the track plan on my last decent 10" wide, but 48" long piece of ply has
a loop to force the driver to collect wagons from each end. I've had to use set-track points otherwise I couldn't
get in the available length. This gives problem 1) very slow running by 0-4-0, or more likely 0-6-0 locos over insulated
dead frog points. The ride over these is horrendous as wagon wheels drop into the common crossing void. Now I
think Peco may have modified clearances between the current product and these old ones as I CAN run slowly over
set-track points on my St Oval roundy-roundy. However this is working with what you have !!
I decided to place slivers of thin plasticard at the base of the common crossing and as all the wagons I intend to use
on this are old Mainline where the plastic wheels are being changed to Hornby metal I should be able to let the deep
flanges bottom out, hence no jolts from the drop.
O.K too much written word, let's have a picture, or two. The modified point common crossing first.
Then the basic track plan.
More to follow, unless it goes so wrong it's ditched !!
Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
Re: A Set-Track shunting loop Project
The idea sounds good.
Ah! I see the problem. There are no images I can see.
Then as if by magic they can be seen.
Looking good. Love to see the scenery on it.
Glencairn
Ah! I see the problem. There are no images I can see.
Then as if by magic they can be seen.
Looking good. Love to see the scenery on it.
Glencairn
To the world you are someone. To someone you are their world.
I Cannot Afford the Luxury of a Negative Thought
I Cannot Afford the Luxury of a Negative Thought
- Bufferstop
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Re: A Set-Track shunting loop Project
Whilst waiting for the images. When I found myself with a surfeit of set track points I took the opportunity to attempt CJ Freezers frog replacement mod. First you dig out the V rails completely. then with a slitting disk in the mini-drill slice out the plastic frog leaving as much of the flangeway bottom as possible. Then make up a replacement frog and V rails with some spare rail soldering the tip at the required angle. I got in as much solder between the two rails and into the tip of the frog as I could then ground it back to a smooth shape. Finally I glued the V assembly in place, using Araldite and levelling the rails with a straight edge across the width of the point base. When the rails were firm I filled the void of the crossing with Milliput, formed into the right sort of shape, let it harden then cautiously opened up the flangeways with a needle file. Much to my own astonishment it worked, not only was there no dead spot, but the cautious opening out of the flange ways reduced the dreaded drop and stutter to just a couple of locos with shallower flanges. I did two more and they formed the neck of the hidden sidings, I surface mounted some point motors that were around and I was quite happy to leave them hidden relying on the sound of the solenoids and the buffers at the dead ends to drive blind into the sidings.
Ah they are back, or they were for long enough to see them then they were gone again.
Ah they are back, or they were for long enough to see them then they were gone again.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions
Re: A Set-Track shunting loop Project
Who says short 0-4-0s can't cross set-track points ?
Yes, I was surprised, particularly as this worked Much better than an Peckett B2 0-6-0 !!
Still much to do before I fully commit.
https://youtu.be/oHczmoPyvA8
Geoff T.
Yes, I was surprised, particularly as this worked Much better than an Peckett B2 0-6-0 !!
Still much to do before I fully commit.
https://youtu.be/oHczmoPyvA8
Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
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Re: A Set-Track shunting loop Project
don't still have them but I used to have a pair of the cheap horny 0-4-0. One got a match wagon added with extra pickups, the other didn't - while the second one was a bit less reliable I found modifying the chassis so the axle without the gear wheel could pivot like a seriously crude compensation method, even though just a bit worked wonders and keeping all four wheels touching the rails, then as long as wheels and rails were clear it worked nicely.
nice track plan too, adds a bit to it having to run round and keep the head shunts clear enough to do it, have a finescale layout I'm pondering here and thats the sort of plan I was thinking of
nice track plan too, adds a bit to it having to run round and keep the head shunts clear enough to do it, have a finescale layout I'm pondering here and thats the sort of plan I was thinking of
Re: A Set-Track shunting loop Project
Hi aleopardstail,
I hope this will work, the two inglenook 5,3,3, layouts work well and are great fun to drive.
I should write out some more combinations, but building another layout is more fun.
The alternative, is to sell off loads of stuff and this will be the way a lot of my stack will go.
In the meantime I may as well indulge in making something. Fine scale it is NOT !!
Out of curiosity what fine scale did you used to use ? SMP, perhaps C&L ? I was not happy with
SMP points.
Last evening I converted 2 Mainline wagons to NEM pockets, ready to have Kadees fitted, 5 more
to go before what I think will be the dedicated stock of 7 coal wagons for this challenge.
Geoff T.
I hope this will work, the two inglenook 5,3,3, layouts work well and are great fun to drive.
I should write out some more combinations, but building another layout is more fun.
The alternative, is to sell off loads of stuff and this will be the way a lot of my stack will go.
In the meantime I may as well indulge in making something. Fine scale it is NOT !!
Out of curiosity what fine scale did you used to use ? SMP, perhaps C&L ? I was not happy with
SMP points.
Last evening I converted 2 Mainline wagons to NEM pockets, ready to have Kadees fitted, 5 more
to go before what I think will be the dedicated stock of 7 coal wagons for this challenge.
Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
Re: A Set-Track shunting loop Project
Not a lot done today, but here are the Mainline wagons, I've changed the couplers
from the quite nice wide Mainline sprung hook type to NEM pockets. The pockets
initially have Bachmann narrow tension lock types fitted to get all the alignments
matching. These will be pulled out and replaced with Kadees when glues fully set.
The progression of changing from original on the right, what has to be sawn off, and new couplers fitted.
So much for doing this without spending much !!
I only have enough Kadees to fit 4 wagons, but the project needs at least 7 wagons.
I also like to keep a few spares, mmmm £20 odd quid on Kadees, plus a few more
Bachmann short tension-lock couplers. The wagons also come without buffer beam
hooks and I've run out of them. These come from Lanarkshire Model Supplies, ordering
this weekend.
Geoff T.
from the quite nice wide Mainline sprung hook type to NEM pockets. The pockets
initially have Bachmann narrow tension lock types fitted to get all the alignments
matching. These will be pulled out and replaced with Kadees when glues fully set.
The progression of changing from original on the right, what has to be sawn off, and new couplers fitted.
So much for doing this without spending much !!
I only have enough Kadees to fit 4 wagons, but the project needs at least 7 wagons.
I also like to keep a few spares, mmmm £20 odd quid on Kadees, plus a few more
Bachmann short tension-lock couplers. The wagons also come without buffer beam
hooks and I've run out of them. These come from Lanarkshire Model Supplies, ordering
this weekend.
Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
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- Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:48 pm
Re: A Set-Track shunting loop Project
not built it yet, plan is 2mm FS... gork help me, still if it doesn't work it will be easy to hide. Have assembled P4, EM and OO points before though.Dad-1 wrote:Hi aleopardstail,
I hope this will work, the two inglenook 5,3,3, layouts work well and are great fun to drive.
I should write out some more combinations, but building another layout is more fun.
The alternative, is to sell off loads of stuff and this will be the way a lot of my stack will go.
In the meantime I may as well indulge in making something. Fine scale it is NOT !!
Out of curiosity what fine scale did you used to use ? SMP, perhaps C&L ? I was not happy with
SMP points.
Last evening I converted 2 Mainline wagons to NEM pockets, ready to have Kadees fitted, 5 more
to go before what I think will be the dedicated stock of 7 coal wagons for this challenge.
Geoff T.
never been massively into shunting, prefer the technical side and watching trains, but have to start somewhere with it, and that sort of layout has the benefit of being a shunting/driving exercise while also looking like a bit of twin track mainline. very hard to fault
Re: A Set-Track shunting loop Project
Plans are O.K BUT, when have things ever gone to plan ??
To align the Peco PA-34 NEM dovetail mounts I have initially fitted with Bachmann narrow Tension-lock couplers.
These are carefully aligned, run on my garage layout before pulling the Bachmann couplers out and replacing
with Kadees, never fails. That was until this weekend one of these Mainline wagons had the mounting block pull
off. It seems that a different type of plastic was used for some production, it's very shiny and liquid polly can't
mark it. Even Gorilla superglue just scratched off with a thumb-nail. I'm thinking this particular chassis has been
made with the drain pipe type of plastic - MMMmm I don't have any of THAT glue and it probably only comes in
large tubes far too much to justify for 2 mounting blocks !! Can I drill and pin satisfactorily ??
The other unwelcome modification will include changing a Hornby decoder for a Zimo in my Hornby J94. While
it runs O.K, and a grand little yard loco happy to pull 25-30 wagons, what it can't do is crawl smoothly, it judders.
There is no logical reason for the judder other than back EMF settings needing adjustment. Now one thing you can't
do on R8249 decoders is change the settings. Because it'll always be running at very low speed I think adjustment
to start voltages will also help. It's very tight on space and I hope to just get a Zimo MX630 in the available space.
I tend to revel in the nickname 'The Butcher of Bridport' My reclaimed Peco set track and points have not laid as
flat as It would appear. In an attempt to level things, including some very minor steps at rail joins I've resorted to
using a large engineers Oil Stone, after some careful filing and polishing. I still have a few other tweaks to try on
my set-rack points as I want highly reliable very slow speed running across them - Dreaming ?? Perhaps, but if you
don't try you'll never succeed and that video of my little Ruston shows it's not far off !!
Bufferstops cutting out the plastic frog is a step too far for me to try and aleopardstail having a fixed match truck
is another path I don't intend to go down. I have spare short streamline live frog points, but that would need another
board and longer layout which I wish to avoid.
Geoff T.
glencairn, Scenic work is a long way off
To align the Peco PA-34 NEM dovetail mounts I have initially fitted with Bachmann narrow Tension-lock couplers.
These are carefully aligned, run on my garage layout before pulling the Bachmann couplers out and replacing
with Kadees, never fails. That was until this weekend one of these Mainline wagons had the mounting block pull
off. It seems that a different type of plastic was used for some production, it's very shiny and liquid polly can't
mark it. Even Gorilla superglue just scratched off with a thumb-nail. I'm thinking this particular chassis has been
made with the drain pipe type of plastic - MMMmm I don't have any of THAT glue and it probably only comes in
large tubes far too much to justify for 2 mounting blocks !! Can I drill and pin satisfactorily ??
The other unwelcome modification will include changing a Hornby decoder for a Zimo in my Hornby J94. While
it runs O.K, and a grand little yard loco happy to pull 25-30 wagons, what it can't do is crawl smoothly, it judders.
There is no logical reason for the judder other than back EMF settings needing adjustment. Now one thing you can't
do on R8249 decoders is change the settings. Because it'll always be running at very low speed I think adjustment
to start voltages will also help. It's very tight on space and I hope to just get a Zimo MX630 in the available space.
I tend to revel in the nickname 'The Butcher of Bridport' My reclaimed Peco set track and points have not laid as
flat as It would appear. In an attempt to level things, including some very minor steps at rail joins I've resorted to
using a large engineers Oil Stone, after some careful filing and polishing. I still have a few other tweaks to try on
my set-rack points as I want highly reliable very slow speed running across them - Dreaming ?? Perhaps, but if you
don't try you'll never succeed and that video of my little Ruston shows it's not far off !!
Bufferstops cutting out the plastic frog is a step too far for me to try and aleopardstail having a fixed match truck
is another path I don't intend to go down. I have spare short streamline live frog points, but that would need another
board and longer layout which I wish to avoid.
Geoff T.
glencairn, Scenic work is a long way off
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
Re: A Set-Track Model Railway shunting loop Project
More interesting work, well to me anyway.
I've spent a day just running various locomotives through these points and watching every
twitch and rock plus noting where each one stalled.
IF, and this is still a big IF the standard shown in this video can be obtained on the other
two points I shall be very happy. O.K it's not an 0-4-0, but 0-6-0s don't come any shorter.
https://youtu.be/tuofJ5vbuDc
Geoff T.
I've spent a day just running various locomotives through these points and watching every
twitch and rock plus noting where each one stalled.
IF, and this is still a big IF the standard shown in this video can be obtained on the other
two points I shall be very happy. O.K it's not an 0-4-0, but 0-6-0s don't come any shorter.
https://youtu.be/tuofJ5vbuDc
Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
- Bufferstop
- Posts: 13796
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
- Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line
Re: A Set-Track shunting loop Project
Hi Geoff, instead of sticking bits of plastic in the bottom of the flangeways try a sliver of adhesive copper tape in contact with the rail at the end of the V rails. I've done it on the points on my "Santa Special" diorama and it now seems most of my smaller locos are happy. The track plan is two settrack points shortened at the stub ends with four lengths of straight track in an elongate X tangent. With one arm of the X going off scene, one a loco shed, one a siding and the fourth the platform face two locos and two short coaches can run a busy schedule.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions
Re: A Set-Track shunting loop Project
Hi Bufferstop,
The plastic infill has nothing to do with conductivity, all to do with the rather large
flangeway void. Old Triang wheels would cross without a huge jerk, but modern wheels
fall in !! Also I have tons of different plasticard, but no self adhesive copper tape.
Electrically It's not causing too much of a problem. All the track sides have been painted
and I will need to polish off all rail heads tomorrow when fully dry. Just hoping that I've
not got paint onto the small contact tabs, or switch rail to stock rail interfaces.
I've found an unused Hornby Accessory Decoder, so rather than have hand operated
'scenic' point changers I'll go fully digital. As I said at the beginning it was a possible project,
but I've now reached the state where I've decided this will go ahead.
One problem is the rough running of my Hornby J94, just moving it's smooth, over a certain
speed, far faster than I want, it's smooth. However in the speed range I want it judders, I
believe this is because the back EMF needs adjustment so I've just had delivered a Zimo
MX630. If anything can smooth it out this can with the right settings. Funny with the back
EMF at present it's nice and smooth pulling 25 wagons !!
Geoff T
The plastic infill has nothing to do with conductivity, all to do with the rather large
flangeway void. Old Triang wheels would cross without a huge jerk, but modern wheels
fall in !! Also I have tons of different plasticard, but no self adhesive copper tape.
Electrically It's not causing too much of a problem. All the track sides have been painted
and I will need to polish off all rail heads tomorrow when fully dry. Just hoping that I've
not got paint onto the small contact tabs, or switch rail to stock rail interfaces.
I've found an unused Hornby Accessory Decoder, so rather than have hand operated
'scenic' point changers I'll go fully digital. As I said at the beginning it was a possible project,
but I've now reached the state where I've decided this will go ahead.
One problem is the rough running of my Hornby J94, just moving it's smooth, over a certain
speed, far faster than I want, it's smooth. However in the speed range I want it judders, I
believe this is because the back EMF needs adjustment so I've just had delivered a Zimo
MX630. If anything can smooth it out this can with the right settings. Funny with the back
EMF at present it's nice and smooth pulling 25 wagons !!
Geoff T
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
Re: A Set-Track shunting loop Project
Still to exchange the decoder fitment in the J94.
Searching through some stuff I've found another magnet. Broken into 2
and glued in place before 'Tea Break' so back to test the overall shunting
idea of this 3 working sidings with short head shunt that would extend
well outside the box, but not needed to solve an exercise.
Frustrated by the bodyless J94 which will super crawl anywhere, yet will
stall anywhere in the medium crawl I want !!! Nothing to do with the dead
frog area and have clean track, wheels, pick-ups. So why run well super slow ??
More to try to understand !!
Video, or photos soon.
Geoff T.
Searching through some stuff I've found another magnet. Broken into 2
and glued in place before 'Tea Break' so back to test the overall shunting
idea of this 3 working sidings with short head shunt that would extend
well outside the box, but not needed to solve an exercise.
Frustrated by the bodyless J94 which will super crawl anywhere, yet will
stall anywhere in the medium crawl I want !!! Nothing to do with the dead
frog area and have clean track, wheels, pick-ups. So why run well super slow ??
More to try to understand !!
Video, or photos soon.
Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
Re: A Set-Track shunting loop Project
Had a job to do in the loft today, itching all over before a shower and change of clothes.
Eventually found some time to play.
My 4 packets of Kadees arrived allowing me a short session this evening.
This is not a particularly good plan, but I have managed 1 exercise. This involves lots of
free shunting and moving single wagons around.
I used 6 wagons, I don't think it can be made to work with 7. The loop needs to be clear
much of the time to allow the shunting loco to move to either side of half the wagons.
The initial placement is 3 in each of the lower sidings. There are 4 magnets for uncoupling
one in the entry headshunt, plus one at the beginning of each siding. Nothing on the back
straight of the loop. Each wagon carries an individual number, 1st number on the crib card
becomes first into the siding for 4, progressing until the required order is present.
Without a set of crib cards with puzzles, then what use is random movement of stock ??
Geoff T.
Eventually found some time to play.
My 4 packets of Kadees arrived allowing me a short session this evening.
This is not a particularly good plan, but I have managed 1 exercise. This involves lots of
free shunting and moving single wagons around.
I used 6 wagons, I don't think it can be made to work with 7. The loop needs to be clear
much of the time to allow the shunting loco to move to either side of half the wagons.
The initial placement is 3 in each of the lower sidings. There are 4 magnets for uncoupling
one in the entry headshunt, plus one at the beginning of each siding. Nothing on the back
straight of the loop. Each wagon carries an individual number, 1st number on the crib card
becomes first into the siding for 4, progressing until the required order is present.
Without a set of crib cards with puzzles, then what use is random movement of stock ??
Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
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- Contact:
Re: A Set-Track shunting loop Project
Sit no more!Dad-1 wrote:... I'm sitting on 30-40 old Peco set-track points, loads of set-track rails, both various straights and a few curves ...
Freight Rail and Reciprocal Switching
That should fill in part of this weekend, and all of next weekend, and ...
Cheers
Chris