Lower Thames Yard

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Tallpaul70
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:24 pm

Re: Lower Thames Yard

Postby Tallpaul70 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:13 pm

Good day All,

Over the last year I have been investigating the wider use of Hornby TTS Decoders in locos other than the locos they are named for. In the last few weeks, I have been doing more on this due to the introduction of the Hall TTS decoder.

Last week, I found some useful information on South West Digital's web site, which suggests which locos in each of the four Grouping companies and BR loco fleets can be replicated by the same sound files.

So for instance, it backs up my decision to use the Hornby TTS Hall decoder in Counties, Granges and 28xx class locos!

Once I have got by head round the relevant data, I will post a distillation of it here.

Aagh!!

It has just started tipping it down here in south Bedfordshire for the second time today, so it looks like I shall not be venturing down the garden to my Model Room again today.

Best regards
Paul

Tallpaul70
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:24 pm

Re: Lower Thames Yard

Postby Tallpaul70 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:59 pm

Hi there,
I promised in my last post that I would post a distillation of the information from the South West Digital site that relates to decoders for Great Western/Western Region locos.

So here goes:-
South West Digital have divided the GWR/WR steam locos into four groups. each of which it has assigned a particular decoder to.

Group 1 comprises all panier (and saddle) tanks plus the Dean Goods.

Group 2 comprises the small prairies and 2-8-0/2-8-2 tanks plus 0-6-2 tanks, 15xx Panniers and the 38xx 4-4-0 tender locos (Counties)

Group 3 comprises Counties, Halls Granges, Manors, Dukedogs, Cities, all 2-8-0 tender locos, all 2-6-0 locos, 2251 0-6-0 tender locos, and all varieties of Large Prairies.

Group 4 comprises Kings, Castles and Stars.

I think that I will be using these Groups and fitting full price decoders to my models in Groups 1 and 2 , Hornby Hall TTS to my locos in Group 3, and I have already have Hornby TTS decoders in my Kings and Castles.

This may not work for locos with non 8 pin sockets, but there are a number of Hornby and Bachmann locos that are 8 pin. So the choice may be between 8/21 pin adapters, which there may not be room for in some locos; hard wiring 8 pin decoders, full price 21 pin decoders, or non sound decoders.

Fitting non sound decoders in some cases will help to offset the full price decoders. I may not be able to make decisions on non sound decoders until I have completed my loco allocations to trains and see if there are any that will be used on perhaps one run in a day's timetable where the lack of sound will not be too noticeable!

I don't have locos in all the types detailed above as locos that were withdrawn before 1960 are not relevant to my layout. So the Dean Goods, saddle tanks, Cities (except Truro), Dukedogs, RODS (in the 2-8-0 category), 38xx Counties and Stars are not for me!

In future posts I will detail the site's similar details for SR, LMR, ER, and BR locos plus BR Diesels and Units. It will probably take three more posts to cover these areas without blowing the readers minds with too much detail in one posting.

The sites listings in some areas are not as comprehensive as their GWR details above, but they say they will be expanding the lists as they develop sound files for more Locos and Units.

I hope this information is of use to others?
Cheers
Paul

Tallpaul70
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:24 pm

Re: Lower Thames Yard

Postby Tallpaul70 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:03 pm

Good afternoon fellow modelers,
Its nice to see the sun shining (at least it is in South Bedfordshire!) after several wet and miserable days!

I have been amusing myself inside the house with a few locos, wagons, and a small amount of track assembled as a shunting layout on the dining room table. Fortunately when, as is the case most days, there are only the two of us, we can eat in the kitchen so things can stay on the dining table.
Very much shades of my play with my Triang tabletop layout as a small boy, and still very enjoyeable.

There has, however, been a more serious side to activities by way of testing the Kadees I fixed to some wagons last week, and some of my not quite standard choices of decoders in some locos..

I shall have to pack it all up tomorrow as it is SWMBO's turn for the table which she no doubt will cover with embroidery materials and threads for a few days.
Then I can get back to detailing in my posts the South West Digital suggestions for regional loco decoder options.

Tomorrow looks to be ok so I hope to get some time in the Railway Room, although I shall have to make an unplanned trip to Tesco to take back some printer cartridges that I can't get to work. I've had them in the past and they have been ok, apart from the odd strange message on the printer.

However I read in the newspaper last week that HP are getting more devious at measures to prevent remanufactured cartridges working in their printers. Unfortunately the paper suggested that all the leading printer manufacturers were following the same lines, so it will not be much help changing manufacturer of printer when this one gives out, which could be any time in the next two or three years.

Luckily we don't use much colour ink these days, unlike when we both worked and were also involved in local area support activities.

Hope everyone is well and enjoying their modeling activities?
Cheers
Paul

Tallpaul70
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:24 pm

Re: Lower Thames Yard

Postby Tallpaul70 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:38 pm

Hi Folks,
This afternoon I am going to continue my look at locos that might share decoder types by looking at Southwest Digitals analysis of SR loco decoders into which I am adding my own thoughts. I will make clear which are my own inputs!

Southwest Digital's analysis of SR loco decoders is not as tidy as their GWR version as they have 6 groups.
So for ease of comparison with their GWR analysis I am reversing the order of the analysis on their web site, and reducing the groups to 4 in number plus an additional group for the modified draughting locos:-

So what I am calling SR Group 1 comprises Terriers, P class and other small tanks to which I am adding small 0-6-0 tender locos such as the C Class

In SR Group ,2 there are 0-6-2s such as the E4s, 0-4-4s such as the M7, Adams 4-4-2 radials, the T9s, and the 700 0-6-0s. I would also add the small 4-4-0s (Ds, Es, etc.)

In SR Group 3 there are the various 2-6-0s such as the Us and U1s, the 4-6-0s such as the N15s, H15s and S15s. I would add the large Tanks such as the H16s, Ws, and Zs plus the original Schools

In Group 4 there are the West Country, Battle of Britain and Merchant Navy classes, both as built and rebuilt.

I feel an additional class, class 5 is needed for the Le Maitre/ multijet fitted N15s, Lord Nelsons, Qs, Q1s and Schools.

Now I am not an expert in SR locos and their sounds, so If anyone thinks I have got it wrong, please say!

Cheers for now,
Paul

Tallpaul70
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:24 pm

Re: Lower Thames Yard

Postby Tallpaul70 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:05 am

Good Morning All,
Firstly, an apology for not posting anything for nearly a month, but what I am writing below, will, I hope explain this?

Unfortunately, the guys down to build the layout have concluded that they cannot see when in the future they can start again building complex layouts such as mine, which they do not want to commence unless they are certain that they can complete them. Most of them are of an age where the effect of the Virus would not be mild or short term.

They have suggested that what is feasible is something that can be build in phases and would be operational to some extent after phase 1. My layout can only be built in phases if built on site, and I just don't have the skills to do that!

So they have suggested that one of their "standard" designs, which is self contained, could be expanded slightly to sit in one 12ft x 4ft side of my 12ft x 8ft hobby room and is within their current capabilities.
I am going along with this, but it does mean that Maidenhead can no longer be the basis of the layout. So the work that has gone into researching the area and particularly the Train Shed and the Goods Shed will not see light of day as a model, although it al helps with my GWR/WR knowledge, so is not wasted.

Currently, I am working up a version of Thame on the Oxford to Princes Risborough line, and in my miniature world this would have survived as a useful diversion route! In its real life, this line saw a quite wide range of locos from 14xx up to Castles, as well as things like Black 5s. Also Thame had an overall roof, so the structural details of Maidenhead train shed walls will come in handy.

While Thame was quite long , and on a single track, again in my world it has double track and is shorter by reason of the sidings are beside the station rather than along from it.

I am possibly going to call the layout "Maybe Thame"!
I have the key books on the line, and one contains the 1935 working timetable, so I will use this for the basis of slightly busier than reality 1960/2 workings.
I did look at Princes Risborough with its still existing large Signal box, but like Maidenhead this would require too much length.

So, once I have reached an agreement with the layout builders, I will start a new thread, and post here what it is called!
Meanwhile, I will probably post a few more details on rolling stock etc. which will carry over to the new layout

Thanks to everyone for their input and reactions to this thread.
Best regards
Paul

Tallpaul70
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:24 pm

Re: Lower Thames Yard

Postby Tallpaul70 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:18 pm

Not a lot to report today.

Spent the morning with my 1961 London Division Local Carriage and DMU workings book sorting out what sets were used on the Oxford to Princes Risborough line through Thame. I also redid the set of books and GWJs I keep immediately to hand to reflect the change in location.

I am also toying with reducing the number of loops in the main fiddle Yard from 10 to 6 so that I can have a minimalistic model of High Wycombe in front of it.

HW is attractive because a lot of the trains through Thame also passed through HW, so I can run them through both stations and this will give me better utilization of the more limited fiddle yards. For instance the morning Hinksey to Taplow freight was known to spent two hours in Thame yard, an hour at Princes Risborough and another hour in High Wycombe, so can be on the layout for a scale 4 hours plus.

HW also has the prototype of what could, in my model, be a built in screen between the station and the fiddle yard, namely the huge blue brick wall on the up side!

However I am keeping this to myself for a while until I get some feedback from the layout builders on my changes to their plan to make a reasonable likeness of Thame! HW would be part of phase 2 of the layout and probably is a year away.

Another attraction of HW is that being the far end of the line from Maidenhead, I can portray a number of the same trains as I would have done for Lower Thames Yard.

So I hope everyone's modelling is making progress, seems we might have some sort of lockdown for the next six months, so no excuse for not getting those models finished?

Best regards
Paul

Tallpaul70
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:24 pm

Re: Lower Thames Yard

Postby Tallpaul70 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:56 pm

Good Day All,

Looking through relevant articles and photos in various GWJs this morning I realized that both Thame and High Wycombe goods sheds had extensions. So my work on the Maidenhead and Witney examples might not be wasted!
Also the same trawl bought up another, and better picture of the Witney extension!

Thame's extension was not a cover for railway wagons but a covered loading bay on the Princes Risborough end of the shed, at right angles to the rails, for road vehicles. It is possible that when lorries cane along the distance between the road bay wall of the goods shed and the back road was insufficient for them to back into the original bay particularly if there was stock in the back road.

I know there were mechanical horses used at Thame, so maybe they could get into the original (horse) loading bay?

HW's extension is similar to Witney's and Maidenheads, but is not as wide as they were possibly because HW's goods shed is a double track one. So far I only have a ground plan, an airial shot and a side shot from some distance, so I may have to make it up but it will be a year or so before I get to needing this shed so other photos may turn up.

Hope some of the books I ordered on the area will turn up tomorrow. It will be Sunday before I get to look at them as we are hosting a family (only 6 of us!) meal tomorrow.

Best regards
Paul

Tallpaul70
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:24 pm

Re: Lower Thames Yard

Postby Tallpaul70 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:17 pm

Hi there all of you.

Three activities to report today:-

1) Making progress on reading the three books that arrived on Saturday. First there is CR Potts Oakwood Press book on the Oxford to Princes Risborough line, which has some useful details and interesting photos. Secondly there was Bill Simpson's two volumes of the History of Oxfordshire Railways. Only had a quick dip into these but for my model Volume 2 covering the south of the county is the most relevant.

2) Unexpectedly, when out for a work this morning came across a NGR Engineers train with gang doing tidying up of the trackside. The train was helpfully standing where the line runs beside a road, so I will post pics of this and a couple from the running day yesterday during tomorrow.

3) Least interesting, although hopefully the most productive towards my model, was a further exchange of e mails with my layout builders trying to resolve the issue of access to the rear of the 12ft x 4ft phase 1 (Thame) to deal with derailments etc.

I have sent them a sketch proposing that the scenic front is dished so that it is 4ft wide at each side, but 3ft wide in the centre couple of feet of the 12ft dimension. They seem keen on the same approach to the rear where the 5 storage loops are. I am not sure about this as it seems to me the length of the loops will be reduced, and they are only able to be just long enough in my opinion as it is! I await their next drawing, hopefully by the end of the week.

Cheers for now
Paul

Tallpaul70
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:24 pm

Re: Lower Thames Yard

Postby Tallpaul70 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:02 pm

Good Afternoon All,

Here, as promised are some photos of the NGR. One from Sunday, and two of yesterday's engineers train.

NGR -27-09.jpg
778 Has just returned to service.


NGR-Engineers-1.jpg
I wonder if the chap at the right is asking where the coal is?


NGR-Engineers-4.jpg
And at the other end of the train......


Cheers
Paul

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Mountain
Posts: 4754
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Lower Thames Yard

Postby Mountain » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:47 pm

Lovely! .

Tallpaul70
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:24 pm

Re: Lower Thames Yard

Postby Tallpaul70 » Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:53 pm

Good Afternoon All,
Apologies for lack of postings, a few family and domestic things got in the way!

More NG Pics to come later!

I spent part of this morning working out the 10 trains and their locos for the first stage of "Thame" in the three eras I want to model. As Thame never existed as a working station in my 90s and modern eras I don't need to worry so much about replacing early 60s features for those eras. I will however have to make the trainshed and goods shed removable, but will leave the station building on its own, as it did exist for a number of years.

So the 10 trains in the 60s era are:-
Passenger:- up and down diverted expresses, Castle or Hall hauled; up and down local passengers, 61xx hauled or DMUs, a workmans 61xx hauled that came to and from Thame in the Oxford direction; and an auto train or alternatively a class 121 that came to and from Thame in the Princes Risborough direction.
Goods:- through up and down Hinksey to Taplow pick ups 61xx or 56xx hauled - these often were only engines and vans past Thame to/from Princes Risborough; a local pick up, 57xx hauled from Hinksey, which shunted and then returned from Thame; and the loaded Petrol tankers that came to the Thame Fuel Depot from the Princes Risborough direction and returned with empties.

I will tell you about the later era trains in another post.

I am just trying to work out what, if anything I can use the Grain Silo kit that arrived with Octobers Hornby Magazine? It's height would make a good view stopper, but I don't think the eastern part of Oxfordshire produced or used that much grain!

Best regards
Paul

Tallpaul70
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:24 pm

Re: Lower Thames Yard

Postby Tallpaul70 » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:38 pm

Good Afternoon to you All,
In this post I'll record a few thoughts about the "modern eras" at Thame:-

There was a scheme worked up by Chiltern Railways to rebuild the Thame line as a way to get them to Oxford. So in my model world this was done and the actual (and cheaper) cord at Bicester was never built!

My current thinking is to have the Thame trainshed removable, keep the brick built station building for all eras and replace the trainshed by a couple of modern passenger shelters. However there is the small matter of the footbridge! The easy way for this might be to forego the footbridge and put in steps to the road bridge which could do for all eras!

I have yet to work out a practical change for the platform lights.

I may retain the signal box, particularly with the goods yard being retained. As well as the dedicated fuel sidings remaining in all eras I think for the later eras I will borrow the engineers sidings that were (still are?) the reuse of the south end sidings on the down side at Princes Risborough.

I did think about modelling Princes Risborough, but I just don't have the room.

I need to talk to Stephen Freeman who was going to make swapable/removable semaphores and colour lights for the Branch side of Lower Thames Yard about the same sort of thing for Thame. As the signals will be cheaper for Thame I may ask him if can do something for the platform lights .

Cheers
Paul

Tallpaul70
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:24 pm

Re: Lower Thames Yard

Postby Tallpaul70 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:58 pm

Hi All,

Latest job completed is a version of the Thame plan showing the signal locations as below, and layout track plan below:-

thame - signals diagram-semaphore - rotated.jpg


thame-layout plus scenery-rotated.jpg


I would do the signals myself as they are simple:- Fixed Distant, Home, Starter and Advanced Starter in each direction, plus necessary ground discs, but for the fact that I want sets of semaphores and colour lights, which can be swapped between eras! Also the down starter needs a calling on/shunting arm.

The Dapols sound attractive, but I have heard that the unplug feature is not robust.

I am also thinking round what would be best approach for the modern era.
The GW & GC seems to be mainly Chiltern 168s etc. plus a few 68s and Freightliner/Colas 66s and 70s and unusual haulage on specials or diversions. So I will have to work out a story for regular visits by other locos.

A possibility is to use the GWR locos, units, and stock I already have, is shared use between Chiltern and GWR with GWR running trains off the Cotswold line to Paddington via High Wycombe, and maybe locals to Aylesbury. However to do this will mean HS2 being delayed so that the access is available to Paddington from the GW & GC!

Hope you are all making progress with your model worlds?

Best regards
Paul


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