West Bay Bridport - Club Layout

Post pictures and information about your own personal model railway layout that is under construction. Keep members up-to-date with what you are doing and discuss problems that you are having.
Dad-1
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: West Bay Bridport - Club Layout

Postby Dad-1 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:18 pm

Dave,

One day I may just finish it !!
Certainly so very pleased Mike persuaded me to keep when we
moved. My oh my, that was 5 years ago on 2nd December.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Dave
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Re: West Bay Bridport - Club Layout

Postby Dave » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:04 pm

Time certainly fly’s, we have now been in four years and I have only managed to complete one micro that has now been scrapped.

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TimberSurf
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Re: West Bay Bridport - Club Layout

Postby TimberSurf » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:33 pm

Dave wrote:Time certainly fly’s, we have now been in four years and I have only managed to complete one micro that has now been scrapped.

I was lolling along, taking my time, but I used the excuse of "Guy" visiting, to ramp up the main completion, a fixed goal is definitely needed to push you forward.
Image
Lumsdonia <--- Hit link to go to my website for full story and wiring advice!

Dad-1
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: West Bay Bridport - Club Layout

Postby Dad-1 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:55 am

While Dave & TimberSurf push on I'm almost at a HALT !!

First the good news - This little beauty looks so cute, now with Kadees fitted

Image

KADEES !!!!! A disaster, they are not fit for purpose when used with British
Freight wagons. You get on a tight-rope where at times you have too little
magnets draw to enter the free shunting mode, while at the same time trains
part because of too much magnet.
I am finished - The only thing that can change my view is to have one electro-
magnet where we MUST both draw trains through the magnets trap without parting,
and enter into the free-shunting mode virtually EVERY time, intermittent operation
will simply not do.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Bufferstop
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Re: West Bay Bridport - Club Layout

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:37 am

Interesting, it's probably to be compatible with his other stock, but have a look at Pink Nosed Penguin's narrow gauge exploits. His Anglicization of the Bachmann Porter extends to removing the original KDs and replacing them with slim tensionlocks, Scroll down here
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My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

Dad-1
Posts: 5903
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: West Bay Bridport - Club Layout

Postby Dad-1 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:33 am

I've not had the chance to bring indoors and fully test, BUT it seems like I've
improved the Kadee action by sawing the large underboard magnet in half !
A little brutal with a requirement of very accurate driving because of the much
reduced envelope of magnetic action.
No hope however with my two latest wagons, both are extremely free running
so will need some braking to be built in. How free ? well they rolled on my kitchen
worktops which should be level !!!!

Did a few photographs - We all love photographs, they save us having to write a
thousand words, or more.

My old 57XX that's being used for testing purposes.

Image

Image

That ground signal is the location for our 'Key' uncoupling magnet, the one that's cut in half.

The yard full of wagons, something would have to go out before any more can be
accepted.

Image

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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joshv8
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Re: West Bay Bridport - Club Layout

Postby joshv8 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:02 pm

I must say Geoff I've admired reading your posts for years and this has been no exception. You always produce professional grade results.
Its most enjoyable following everones progress and the people we interact with here on the forum. I must have had a good 6 or 7 year absence in posting on the forum and find it a little sad that the layouts and people I used to read about have since moved on or pop up very little, myself being no exception buying a home and starting a family.
Ive always popped in and out over the years however having a read and seeing what everyones doing and your works always been consistent throughout the years... very commendable.
Im very interested reading about your exploits with the kadees. They always seem such an effort to retrofit and dissapointing you're not having more luck.

Dad-1
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: West Bay Bridport - Club Layout

Postby Dad-1 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:44 pm

Hi joshv8,

Thanks for the kind comments ...... I just keep plodding along although
it's a sobering thought when you look back, nigh on 10 years of different
layouts.

More on Kadees to follow when I upload the short video.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Dad-1
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: West Bay Bridport - Club Layout

Postby Dad-1 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:25 pm

Kadees ..... Grrrrr.

I have this magnet working well (By British freight standards) It's as much to do with
all modern British outline wagons having magnetic wheel sets as anything else.

You can't expect to move a trip pin that sits 0.8 mm above rail head height without
causing a reaction to magnetic wheel sets that have flanges of at least 1.0 mm below
rail head height and the tyres sitting on the rail.

This video shows how the magnet latches onto the wheel sets and centralizes in the
magnetic field.

https://youtu.be/aZOqJq-G9z0

With a train of braked stock it's possible to pull over with very few separations. There is
a large enough magnetic field to uncouple by releasing the tension. At the same time
most can be drawn into the free shunt position. ANY reduction of magnetic force and access
to the free shunt position becomes most unreliable.

Nobody said it would be easy ! We have now bought an electro-magnet that's going to be
built into a metre long test track. I don't want to use on West Bay as it will probably mean
stripping out a piece of track with all the resultant damage to delicate fine scale track.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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TimberSurf
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Re: West Bay Bridport - Club Layout

Postby TimberSurf » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:44 pm

Wow, I understood the problem you have had, but I never dreamed it was so pronounced! Crickey! :o
Brass shafts need methinks (assuming the wheels are not magnet to boot)
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Lumsdonia <--- Hit link to go to my website for full story and wiring advice!

Dad-1
Posts: 5903
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: West Bay Bridport - Club Layout

Postby Dad-1 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:56 pm

Hi Timbersurf,

To be honest that was an un-braked wagon. Now fitted with a single axle brake
and will still move under magnetic draw, but, in shall we say, a relaxed manner !

Because I don't have much free time and certainly unable to bring the layout
indoors, there has been limited testing of the half magnet operations. With
half magnet and the full enhancing plate it appears to be almost there. I will
admit that I want close to perfection, something I don't think was expected of
Kadees.

I looked at a guy's video on Youtube where he was using Neo above board magnets,
but to the side. However although his operation looked slick it was such a strong
sideways pull that without tension the couplings snapped into the free shunt mode.
The result of would be for a train being reversed into a siding to have each individual
wagon snap into free shunt mode. Making it impossible to reverse a train into a siding
and just drop off the brake van, something that has to happen frequently on West Bay.

In the meantime I've been looking at our secondhand Bachmann 57XX. It's not running to
the required standard, in fact the driven axle was so tight you couldn't move from side
to side. I took the bottom plate off and cleaned out some glutinous grease, put back
together only to find it was worse ! It lurched along, particularly in reverse. Again that
axle was so tight, no play and no slack in the gears. I cut two fine paper gasgets and
placed between the chassis and bottom plate each side of the driven axle. Hey-Presto
The horrid sound of an electric motor struggling to move gone, just able to feel some play
with side to side movement. Trouble is that's now highlighted another 'problem' in that the
decoder must have been re-set to accommodate the sticky starting as a result it gets too
much start voltage and has no effective super slow running. So a re-programming session
called for.
I reckon we only got this 57XX with decoder and crew fitted for £55 because the previous
owner couldn't sort it ..... Hope I can, but I don't know the decoders quality and may
invest in a Zimo.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Bufferstop
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Re: West Bay Bridport - Club Layout

Postby Bufferstop » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:27 pm

Same reaction here as Timbersurf, I'd had minor problems with the Neodymium magnets trying to grab the axles, but it was only the axle which was directly above a magnet. (The BK mod to tensionlocks has two magnets spaced about as far apart as the coupler tail is from the axle, so some effect is likely on steel axles but nothing like that in your video. If you can set them up to allow shunting on beyond uncoupling then I'd be looking at either electromagnets, or a fairly powerful button magnet rising on a mechanical arm through the board at the start of the fan. I did some physics lab experiments with the neo magnets, and a tub of fine steel shot. The fields were interesting, they seemed to spray out some distance from the poles then curve back to the other end without reaching out very far around the rod. Sticking two of them end to end increased their reach end ways but not the diameter of the field. Might be worth checking one of those big magnets just to see what its field looks like. Just don't do it anywhere near the railway and keep the magnets in a little poly bag, otherwise if you spill any you'll never get the shot of the surface of the magnet.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

Dad-1
Posts: 5903
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: West Bay Bridport - Club Layout

Postby Dad-1 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:44 pm

Hi John & Anyone interested in Kadees,

Electro-magnets is probably the way to go for a higher level of success in ALL
aspects for the dedicated scenic modeller.

I was cheesed off at club the other night where one of the small kadee magnets
worked 100% with every test !! That's the between rails type that sits just a fraction
above rail-head and if you can incorporate as part of a barrow crossing it's fine. With
those magnets they pull equally sideways and don't induce a lengthway movement.
Sticking one in the middle of a nice yard looks daft, hence trying to work with a hidden
under the board magnet.

Working with a half magnet seems to work much better, you still need wagon brakes
as that lengthway pull is still strong, but subdued enough to be looking good.

Neo magnets to the side is an option that I've not bothered with as they usually need to
sit above a cinder yard's datum.

Not on here much as my eldest son now uses the computer room as his bedroom and he's
working rotating 12 Hr shifts of day & night.

IF the weather improves a little I'll add a video of shunting on West Bay. So wet and windy
I'm staying indoors, My excuse is looking after the wife - operation was 2 weeks ago today.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Dad-1
Posts: 5903
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: West Bay Bridport - Club Layout

Postby Dad-1 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:35 pm

Kadees nearly 'there' ..........
Platform lights on and working.
A Ratio 'Iron Mink' and Parkside 'Mink 'A' being taken out
behind a 57XX with the Oxford Rail "Bridport" 6 wheel 'Toad'

Image

Just a quick flash visit, still work to do before 12th January.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Lysander
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Re: West Bay Bridport - Club Layout

Postby Lysander » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:05 am

I love seeing this little layout Geoff. Never stop posting the photos!

Tony
Men with false teeth may yet speak the truth.......


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