Dual use layout

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forest446
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 9:58 am
Location: yorkshire

Dual use layout

Postby forest446 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:32 pm

Hi all
So I am building my new layout a round the room twin main line with mainline station on one side and shunting puzzle on the other.
All the boards are in and track laid out all good.
Then the sticking point.
I want the layout to be both dc and dcc.
Obviously not at the same time. I have about 250 dc locos and 10 dcc 8 with sound which is what made me start to change.
I get using DPDT switches to change controls
To stop them been accidentally mixed
But how would I wire up to points an stop power moving down the power bus if not on dcc
An vice versa.
Using 2 hm200 controllers an nce power cab
Thanks
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A railroad engineer must be sure not to loose his train of thought or he might go down the wrong track.

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TimberSurf
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Re: Dual use layout

Postby TimberSurf » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:48 pm

Short answer, two buss's, one for each track, lots of DPDT switches and lots of IRJ's.
Best to show us a track plan, then we can assist deciding were they all go!
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Lumsdonia <--- Hit link to go to my website for full story and wiring advice!

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Mountain
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Location: Somewhere in Wales, UK.

Re: Dual use layout

Postby Mountain » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:06 pm

The key is to make sure that the two systems dont connect with each other. For example, at a crossover between one loop and another. Is is safer to have two seperate systems on the same layout.
I origionally bought into DCC as it used to be sold with the ability to run both DCC and one dc locomotive. Since those days new systems dont allow this as the electronic vibrations can damage the insulation on some more delicate motor coils. (I have heard of people running their dc locos for a long time (A few years) without any issues but I'm guessing it only takes one more delicate motor and it is a case of a motor rewind time or a new motor. So I'm guessing is that the DCC manufacturers thought it best to play it safe incase).

Mike Parkes
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Re: Dual use layout

Postby Mike Parkes » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:11 pm

Work out the cost involved with all the switching and cabling etc involved - how many decoders will that buy instead? I would suggest you ditch dc, you have 10 dcc locos to start with, plus the others made dcc from the monies that you would have spent on switches and cable etc. You can then gradually make some if not all of the others suitable for dcc - can't quite imagine all 250 in use at once.

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alex3410
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Re: Dual use layout

Postby alex3410 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:06 am

depending on your track plan could you have independent loops for DC & DCC? to eliminate the risk of them crossing over?

250 DC locos is a fair sized collection! one option could be to evaluate what you have and sell on some to fund the DCC chips for the remaining ones? This is what i ended up doing when i made the switch, although in a much smaller scale :lol:

I can see why your concerned the cost of converting all 250 would be huge! not to mention time-consuming as well.

forest446
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 9:58 am
Location: yorkshire

Re: Dual use layout

Postby forest446 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:52 am

Thanks for the reply’s
I am thinking having it so it’s either in dc or dcc
Don’t fancy frying motors or chips.
I have a lot of older stock split chassis an tender drives which don’t lend themselves to dcc chipping an have collector models that I do run but wouldn’t want them taking apart to chip
Like great gathering, grey tornado.
Also there some sentimental ones
That’s why I’d rather take the hit on wiring.
Can you upload from Apple device. As trying to load track plan from pictures
Image
A railroad engineer must be sure not to loose his train of thought or he might go down the wrong track.

Byegad
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Re: Dual use layout

Postby Byegad » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:11 pm

With 40+ yrs of N gauge, I have 187 locos at the last count. Many were made long before dcc was even a thought, so I decided 18 months ago when my new layout was started to stick to dc. at even £10/loco that's a lot of money to chip all of the locos.

forest446
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 9:58 am
Location: yorkshire

Re: Dual use layout

Postby forest446 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:08 pm

I said I wouldn’t go dcc
I got the TTS P2 as was the only version of the detailed loco I could find.
My nephew has a twin loop dcc which was my old layout so put it on an the sound brought another level of enjoyment
Hence looking at both
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A railroad engineer must be sure not to loose his train of thought or he might go down the wrong track.

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TimberSurf
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Re: Dual use layout

Postby TimberSurf » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:40 pm

I believe some DCC decoders can be run on DC and even have sound working (though all the features are not available) and obviously you can only run one at a time (not independent)
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Lumsdonia <--- Hit link to go to my website for full story and wiring advice!

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Mountain
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Re: Dual use layout

Postby Mountain » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:26 pm

I thought most DCC decoders can run on DC as long as there are no electronic track cleaners and no feedback controllers in use.
DC or DCC. Big decision. I love both but I have more of a love for DC these days. Its like an old friend.
Solid chassis locos can be converted. Some Mainline locos are actually easier then later Bachmann locos to convert, BUT most conversions do take a lot of workand is why most of us avoid converting them.
Tender drives are usually easy with the exception of a few (But not all... Just a few) Hornby ringfield motors as there is one design I found where I couldn't isolate the one motor terminal from the wheel contact. I've since been told there is a way by changing a metal screw to a plastic screw. Of all the locos I have with ringfield motors (All the others are diesels) was only this one loco (An LMS 4-6-0 steam loco) which I had an issue.
Only one other loco I didnt convert. I looked at it, and didnt want to try. An immaculate condition and hardly used, Wrenn class 08. Both these locos were sold to a friend. I may have been able to convert the Wrenn, but I decided not to try!


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