UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Post pictures and information about your own personal model railway layout that is under construction. Keep members up-to-date with what you are doing and discuss problems that you are having.
NedFlanders
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Further Clearance testing.

Postby NedFlanders » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:28 am

Sooo, time passed........

Further testing by the relevant (Junior) engineer brought to light that (some of) the storage sidings on the Diagonal board just weren’t long enough. A Swallow Liveried HST set with four carriages was deemed the longest train for storage – and it wouldn’t fit.

Careful examination of the previous compulsory purchase order that had been served revealed that there had been an error on the site layout by the surveyors and there was an area of land that should have been used for the trackbed……. This was duly appropriated and the person responsible for the error suitably chastised!

Construction of the expanded trackbed location commenced with more 9mm ply and some softwood supports along the edge of the existing boards. – at its widest it only gives an extra 4-5 inches ( TV End) narrowing to 0 at the opposite end( Door End). The Area reclaimed is highlighted in the next photo

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This was then covered in the same 9mm ply

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Track realignment works commenced, and we then edged the boards to secure against the dreaded drop to the floor and started test clearance runs.

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Some static load testing also took place.

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All seemed to be going well from the first tests but then issues arose with the curved points at either end of the sidings. We originally only had one in the “trailing” position, however after the redevelopment work we ended up with one curved point at either end. Certain locos/carriages would derail, but not all.

Much puzzlement and deliberations ensued – ultimately I came to the conclusion that a three way point at either end would deal with the problem. However the “Small Controller” expressed the opinion that three way points were too confusing. Hmmmmmm.

Testing continued and a simple solution was happened upon.......
Getting back into railways, one step at a time.

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Bufferstop
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Postby Bufferstop » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:12 am

Settrack curved points are always a problem, as to fit into the geometry the inner curve has to be tighter than the outer, which can be a problem with long wheelbase locos and stock.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

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Mountain
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Postby Mountain » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:22 am

Nice cat. :) Love the layout idea.
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

NedFlanders
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Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:56 pm

Curved Point Bodge.

Postby NedFlanders » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:29 am

Thank you for your responses.

I had heard of much problems with the set track Curved points, however, on the Trackmat layout putting in a curved point had cured a rake ( pun not intended) of problems so that’s why I had given them a go.

The two main culprits for issues on the extension were one or two of Flying Scotsman’s LNER coaches and the HST – both had Short wheelbase bogies???? Flying Scotsman itself, A GWR Hall class Loco, a Class 37 and a class 40 – no problems and all long(ish) wheelsets????? This wasn’t what was supposed to be happening.

So I got up close and personal with the point and watched as the derailments happened. The wheelsets that were derailing were riding up on the frog as they were taking the “tightest” route through the point. I reasoned then that perhaps the Back to Back on those sets may not be the most accurate. That said, I don’t have one of those BackToBack checker/setters. Hmmmmmm.

Looking at the Point I then thought “Well, isn’t the Checkrail supposed to stop the wheels from riding up the frog?” - a quick Bodge involving a small sliver of insulating tape laid along checkrail and all derailments went away as if by magic!

A long term fix its not, but as a stop gap measure to cure a complete pain – it was great to hit upon it.
I will have to get myself a backtoback checker and perhaps some plasticard etc. to effect a long term fix but that’s for another day…….

Here’s the bodge in all its glory.

Image
Getting back into railways, one step at a time.

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Bufferstop
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Postby Bufferstop » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:28 am

As well as back to back, check the end float on the axles, as an old hand in maintaining small mechanisms used to put it, "It'll be OK if you can tell there is some but it's too small to measure" Excessive end float, combined with bogie mounted couplings is a recipe for bogie wheels trying to go the wrong way. If there is too much float, you can either try to find an axle of the correct length, or drill through the closed axlebox and push in brass cup bearings, (the shoulderless kind), and press them inwards until you are happy with the float. Pop some plastic filler into the hole once its running ok, then a touch of black paint on the end, or bright yellow if you want to imitate recently overhauled bogies.
It used to be my job, when descending into New Street, to do a count of the coloured axleboxes on DMUs stabled alongside the line. I can no longer remember which colour was which but Dad had a professional interest in the numbers of "BR Timken" and SKF bearings fitted.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

NedFlanders
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Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Postby NedFlanders » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:35 pm

Bufferstop wrote:As well as back to back, check the end float on the axles,


Interesting, thank you.

I will invest in one of the back2back guages and then take a look at each set that is derailing and look at the axles as well.

Futher track testing, additions, etc. have also taken place since that post. I will have more posts over the coming days once time allows

Ned.
Getting back into railways, one step at a time.

NedFlanders
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Lower Station Throat first redraft....

Postby NedFlanders » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:56 pm

Right so - back to the Lower Station and the movement of the crossover from the Curve after the station back to the station throat to allow the Small controller direct access to both running lines from the Three storage loops on the outer loop - i.e. a train marshalled to go in either direction on the storage loops can drive directly off the outer loop and onto the correct running line.

Yes, I know there is a fantastic chance of head to head conflicts, however in the Small controllers world I think the ease of the access to the main lines would be better than having to try reversing slowly back through points - I certainly saw that as it was being tested......... ;)

So - quick reminder, this is the first layout with the proposed new crossover in yellow...... you can see that going from right to left from the outer loop there would be a direct route to the inner Loop which wasn't there before

Image

This is the "Dogs Dinner" it became... :( While Functionally it did the needful, it looked a complete mess with the double s curve - denoted by the Blue arrow.

Image

Trains could run happily from the outer loop to the inner loop but I couldn't warm to it - even in my "This is for messing about with trains - not realism" ethos for this railway. So I left it for a while and decided to start on building some baseboards for the upper level to check clearances etc. and see what kind of a solution might present itself while I was doing that.

Nothing did - mainly because after getting the timber needed over Easter, I did no more for a couple of Months as life/work got in the way for a while...... so I did some Cork laying ( in the next post) to get the thoughts going again.
Getting back into railways, one step at a time.

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PinkNosedPenguin
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Postby PinkNosedPenguin » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:41 pm

Maybe you could move 'turnout 2' to the right a bit, replace the new 3-way point with the original, and then insert a new left hand point such that the track between this new point and 'turnout 2' is straight?

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luckymucklebackit
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Postby luckymucklebackit » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:45 pm

....or, move turnout 2 to the right until you have a straight connection, and move the crossover with turnout 1 to the right, effectively swapping position with turnout 2. You might also get the benefit of the platform being marginally longer

Jim
This Signature Left Intentionally Blank, but since I have written this and I intended to do it, this Signature is intentionally not blank. Paradox or What?
My layout - Gateside and Northbridge
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Mountain
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Postby Mountain » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:55 pm

Turnout 1 could be a 3 way point instead with the rest left as it is (Except you won't need turnout number 2).
[Referring to the lower picture].
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

NedFlanders
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Postby NedFlanders » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:06 am

Thanks for your suggestions

PinkNosedPenguin wrote:... and then insert a new left hand point such that the track between this new point and 'turnout 2' is straight?


Unfortunately not- there is a baseboard joint just to the right which would preclude that. :(

luckymucklebackit wrote:... and move the crossover with turnout 1 to the right, effectively swapping position with turnout 2...?


I think it would also fall foul of the Baseboard joint. :( I will take some of my spare turnouts and check the fit.

Mountain wrote:... Turnout 1 could be a 3 way point instead with the rest left as it is (Except you won't need turnout number 2)...


This is the conclusion I came to as well, I think this could well be the winner - I had also considered losing the two crossovers on the outside loop with one Scissors crossing sited on the baseboard to the right....... But then I realized when I was looking at it that a three way point would also do the job much cheaper.

I think what I will do as I am laying the cork is to take the goods yard three way point and put it in place of Turnouts 1&2 and shuffle the other turnouts until I have as easy a flow for the trains as possible, also allowing for a wider Island platform, I could do this as I had further thoughts on the Goods yard layout after testing - lose the loop, put in a doubleslip for the throat, hmmmmm - watch this space ( or possibly the planning thread ).

Ned
Getting back into railways, one step at a time.

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Mountain
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Postby Mountain » Sat Aug 25, 2018 5:32 pm

The Peco double slip is space saving but not necessarily as space saving as one may imagine, though you do have the space available for at least one if you decide to. They do provide a little something special for your railway. It is something that years ago I just had to buy because it was there!
It would help to have a small double slip in the range to be a real space saver. I believe I have seen one somewhere. It may have been made by Fleishmann though I can't remember. Got me thinking now... :D
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

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luckymucklebackit
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Postby luckymucklebackit » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:43 pm

Mountain wrote:It would help to have a small double slip in the range to be a real space saver. I believe I have seen one somewhere. It may have been made by Fleishmann though I can't remember. Got me thinking now... :D


A costly space saver at £59 a pop, also not quite compatible with Peco as the turnout angles are not the same (18 degree vs 12 degree)

Jim
This Signature Left Intentionally Blank, but since I have written this and I intended to do it, this Signature is intentionally not blank. Paradox or What?
My layout - Gateside and Northbridge
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Mountain
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Postby Mountain » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:48 pm

£59 :shock: How can they justify the excessive price? German modellers must be rich... (Or used to be before they bought a double slip! :lol: ).
Enjoying 7mm narrow gauge.

NedFlanders
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Postby NedFlanders » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:31 pm

Further thoughts....

As we tested a bargain ( eurostar with four carriages for 50 euro) picked up today at a local show, another thought occurred to me - I have added a couple of inches in width of baseboard at the TV corner which means the inner loop could now be moved closer to the centre of the layout ( see orange arrows below indicating the direction of movement), leaving the middle loop line where it is. This would then allow the three way point on the inner line to link to the turnout on the middle loop without the S curve - I think. Also gives me a wider Island platform. A brief check this evening with a Standard long Hornby straight would suggest that moving that line about an inch southwards might be all that was needed. this should not impact too much on the Yard area.

Image

RE the double-slip, My thinking on the two goods yard is that they will be a pair of Shunting puzzles for my entertainment while other formations circle on the loops. To that end I would see one feeding the other, from some industry or other, and empties returning along the main line - all on the inner loop. No need for a runaround loop in the yard then, as the trains would always reverse into the yards..... so, lose the three way turnout in the yard, which also loses the line closest to the platform and another point at the other end of the loop. Keeping three shortish lines and a headshunt. Also allows more scenic development. Now, seeing as I'm losing the threeway turnout in the yard, if I also got rid of the headshunt turnout at the same time and replaced them both with a double-slip, then I'm hoping it would ease the curve into the headshunt as well. Something I've wanted to do ever since I laid it.

So the plan is:
1. Continue laying the cork underlay under all tracked areas and glue in place the outer loop.
2. Once I am happy with the outer loop, relay temporarily the Station area on the fresh cork with the musings above and test the practicalities again.
3. If at any point in steps 1 & 2 I get bored or need inspiration, start building the baseboards for the upper station area. :wink:

"Simples" - as a Meerkat of my acquaintance might say. :D

Ned.
Getting back into railways, one step at a time.


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