UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Post pictures and information about your own personal model railway layout that is under construction. Keep members up-to-date with what you are doing and discuss problems that you are having.
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Chops
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Post by Chops »

Grand looking layout. As for your problem turnout it appears that you have correctly identified that it spans a joint.
As a rule of thumb, “thou shalt not place thy turnout undereth a mountain.” Able to shift the turn out placement?
Nessie rocks!
Admin4
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Re: Constructive Efforts

Post by Admin4 »

NedFlanders wrote: For a number of years I have fancied doing something based on the Tees Wagon repair depot after I found it on a random search at one time
I grew up within walking distance of here, its amazing to think that this little shed replaced what was the massive Thornaby shed.
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NedFlanders
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Post by NedFlanders »

Chops wrote:Grand looking layout. As for your problem turnout it appears that you have correctly identified that it spans a joint.
As a rule of thumb, “thou shalt not place thy turnout undereth a mountain.” Able to shift the turn out placement?
Hi Chops,

Well noticed -it's less of a joint and more of just the next cork tile - but it is a smidgeon higher. The photo exaggerates it. I'm going to lift the point this weekend and see if it is distorted at the frog as the elevation change not evident on the running rail. Or perhaps some gremlin crept under the frog at tracklaying time.

If its just the slight difference between the tiles, a quick bit of sanding and we should be off to the next problem.

Thanks for the comment.

Ned.
Getting back into railways, one step at a time.
Ned's Workbench - https://tinyurl.com/y4jby73c
The UppydownyRoundyRoundyRailway - https://tinyurl.com/y6stelsr
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NedFlanders
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A bit longer than I expected, and turnout decoder advice please?

Post by NedFlanders »

Hi all,

Not a whole pile has happened since I last posted - I had expected to get more done over Christmas - but didn't. Similarly, Since Christmas, work has been busier than ever which doesn't leave much time for anything else at the moment. That and I hit a problem Hiatus that I have been considering with no progress.

That said;

I had a bit of Fun fitting a chip and stay alive to a Pug.
pug before.JPG
Pug after.JPG


I did a couple of bits on the lower yard to get the shunting puzzle working with the Pug, including fixing down the tracks finally and testing with clearances etc. and then decided to take down the boards to tidy up the cabling and fit point motors.

Cables before
before.JPG
before.JPG (98.04 KiB) Viewed 1938 times
Cables after twisting them in the chuck of a cordless drill and attaching to some "Bus connectors" I picked up.
after.JPG
after.JPG (81.28 KiB) Viewed 1938 times
After doing that I turned to finally getting the point motors work from the DCC controller - and that's where I hit my current (boom boom, unintentional pun) hiatus problem.

Lash up in place for testing
turnout bothers.JPG
So - the turnout decoder is to the right, the CDU is in the middle and a time honoured peco point to the left.

Programmed and checked that all the outputs worked, I connected it to the point motors on the board and they all worked bar one. Long story short, the CDU does not seem to operate through the controller, so if here's a need for a small amount of extra current to switch the motor it just doesn't do the job. I checked a couple of other turnouts and I had the same kind of success rate - 75% working 25% making a small bit of noise but no movement. All work fine when using the stud and probe method with the CDU.

So - Advice please. I have a White Roco z21 - what would be a good turnout decoder that would have a bit more oomph to switch some of the points that might need that little bit more, or to switch two sets of points at the same time for a couple of crossovers I have? I have a mix of peco and seep motors and for my upper level the seeps nicely fit under the board giving clearance to the lines below, so for the upper level it would not be hugely practical to switch to something like the cobalt decoders there.... that said. all suggestions gratefully received as I've used up all my research and testing time attempting to get the old kit working with the current layout. I'm inclined to use my old kit for the turnouts that they work with and buy new beefier decoders for the problem ones.

Thanks all.

Ned.
Getting back into railways, one step at a time.
Ned's Workbench - https://tinyurl.com/y4jby73c
The UppydownyRoundyRoundyRailway - https://tinyurl.com/y6stelsr
heda
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Post by heda »

On my previous DCC N gauge layout I operated the points using Lenz LS150 decoders and a Lenz TR150 transformer.
On my current layout I'm running DC but considering DCC but I intend to keep points control as it is, a CDU powered by a Hornby wall wart transformer and toggle switches.
Both methods work fine but I prefer the toggle switch method of switching points and use the controller purely for operating trains.

I'm looking with interest at your fitting the stay alive to the pug, this is one of the trains I use for shunting, the main reason for me considering going digital is better low speed control and might need the stay alive to help it along, have you tried it out, does it do the job and did you squeeze it in without having to do any mods to the pug, I haven't looked at it yet but looks like a tight fit.

Dave
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Ironduke
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Post by Ironduke »

Do you have any technical details on the point decoder setup?
What model is the decoder? Is there a manual?
What voltage powers the CDU?

Can you adjust the decoder output "on" time or increase the CDU supply voltage?
Regards
Rob
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NedFlanders
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Post by NedFlanders »

heda wrote: I'm looking with interest at your fitting the stay alive to the pug, this is one of the trains I use for shunting, the main reason for me considering going digital is better low speed control and might need the stay alive to help it along, have you tried it out, does it do the job and did you squeeze it in without having to do any mods to the pug, I haven't looked at it yet but looks like a tight fit.
Dave
Hi Dave,

The only mod I needed to do was a small piece of balsa between the cylinders to stop the keepalive from slipping down as I put on the body ( as well as all the heatshrink to protect my poor soldering etc.)

See the balsa here, indicated with the red arrow fitted between the cylinders - also the cabling is tidied up a bit better and the tape holds it so with the balsa it cant foul the gear
Balsa.JPG
She ran fine albeit I think I was expecting better from the keepalive - that said, I discovered that I had wired the points up "wrong" so the dead zone ( The spot where she might rock when going over the frog) was a bit deader than it should have been. Once I had that copped and sorted I moved on to the point motors and cables and haven't had the board the right way up since.

Ned.
Last edited by NedFlanders on Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Getting back into railways, one step at a time.
Ned's Workbench - https://tinyurl.com/y4jby73c
The UppydownyRoundyRoundyRailway - https://tinyurl.com/y6stelsr
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NedFlanders
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Post by NedFlanders »

Ironduke wrote:Do you have any technical details on the point decoder setup?
What model is the decoder? Is there a manual?
What voltage powers the CDU?

Can you adjust the decoder output "on" time or increase the CDU supply voltage?
thanks for the interest.

The decoder was one I found on ebay being made by a local guy in Ireland - it worked fine on the old trackmat layout.

The chap has a grand website with the manuals and replied to my emails for advice. He was happy for me to send it back to him for him to test. However I had already:
gone through the documentation and tried various permutations of controlling the output with the different timings - to no avail
bought a second decoder ( as I would have needed more) and found the same issue with the second decoder
bought one of his CDUs and wired it up as per his diagram with both decoders - to no avail.
both my original CDU and his work the points fine using a Stud and probe method.
Tried all of the above with a Hornby elink and the Roco z21.

So I haven't sent them back for testing as:
I'm not into those decoders for many bobs so I'm happy to use them just for the ones they work with.
My time is getting more limited so I'm happy to move on with more mainstream ones that will work out of the box with seep/peco point motors if possible.
I love the control of DCC but I think my other love of working through "interesting" problems is now delaying the build too much - time to buy "more expensive" and less "Oooooo, I wonder can I get that to work?" :wink:

Ned.
Getting back into railways, one step at a time.
Ned's Workbench - https://tinyurl.com/y4jby73c
The UppydownyRoundyRoundyRailway - https://tinyurl.com/y6stelsr
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Ironduke
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Post by Ironduke »

NedFlanders wrote:My time is getting more limited so I'm happy to move on with more mainstream ones that will work out of the box with seep/peco point motors if possible.
Well I think If I was buying an accessory decoder for solenoid motors these days I would go for the Cobalt range.

There is also this which I haven't seen before but it's only slightly cheaper than the 4 point Cobalt ADS-4SX

If you wanted 8 points the 8 way ADS-8SX is cheaper, on a per-point basis.
Regards
Rob
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Mountain
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Post by Mountain »

There is not a lot of room in those little locos for decoders but I did manage in the past to fit a small Lenz N gauge decoder in the chassis at the back. There was just enough room. It was a smaller decoder then the one you have... But the stay alive? That is a tight squeeze! (The Lenz N gauge decoder I used pre-dates stay alive, and I later removed it when I opted DC control for my 7mm narrow gauge. The decoder and loco did work ok. Was personal preference and budgeting decisions as to why I removed them).
I would almost be tempted to tape or stick the decoder and stay alive part to the underside of the locos body, but it would require a very small plug and socket to seperate them, or maybe just generous length wires? As long as nothing touches any moving parts.
heda
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Post by heda »

Thanks for that Ned, if you can fit a decoder and stay alive in one of those little pugs they should fit in about anything.
I'll keep this for future reference.
Good luck with the points control.
Dave
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NedFlanders
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Re: UppyDownyRoundyRoundyRailway

Post by NedFlanders »

Ironduke wrote:
There is also this which I haven't seen before but it's only slightly cheaper than the 4 point Cobalt ADS-4SX

If you wanted 8 points the 8 way ADS-8SX is cheaper, on a per-point basis.
Cheers IronDuke, the dcc concepts ones do sound good and it looks like they also have the frog polarity switch as well.

I also found some Gaugemaster Single ones which don't look very elegant - but where I need 5 points - a four way dcc concepts + 1 from gaugemaster might be the way to go.

cheerio,

Ned.
Getting back into railways, one step at a time.
Ned's Workbench - https://tinyurl.com/y4jby73c
The UppydownyRoundyRoundyRailway - https://tinyurl.com/y6stelsr
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NedFlanders
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Summer's Over!

Post by NedFlanders »

Spring and Summer came and the railway was left dismantled in the midst of my point motor deliberations. With the advent of the darker evenings there has been the beginnings of some movement again

All the rest of the point motors were fitted.
1 Fit the last of the point motors.JPG
1 Fit the last of the point motors.JPG (56.93 KiB) Viewed 1411 times
One of the DCC Concepts Point motor decoders was bought, tested and then the order was placed for all the others! So easy to program.
1a And some point acessory decoders.JPG
This one may have been a "Monday" decoder? Can you spot the Deliberate mistake? It was the same at both ends ( I have no moral high ground here.... I once sent an engineer to the wrong side of a county to do a job!)
1b a monday decoder.JPG
Lets get them into the z1 iPad app - so easy. The Three way points work a treat - you do have to count to 2 between changing points on the same decoder output - I had to educate both myself and the Junior Controller, in our enthusiasm we sometimes got ahead of ourselves
1c into z1.JPG
Now, what else can we do?

Until next time Neighbours.
Getting back into railways, one step at a time.
Ned's Workbench - https://tinyurl.com/y4jby73c
The UppydownyRoundyRoundyRailway - https://tinyurl.com/y6stelsr
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NedFlanders
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Castle Retaining Walls?

Post by NedFlanders »

I know - Lets hit that expanse of Foam on the Inclines.

Domestic Authorities deemed that they preferred the Limestone look to the Red/Brown brick look. After a spot of browsing I thought the Metcalfe Castle walls would do well as a base.

Ok - First - lest glue down the last of the track with some powerbase under the crossover points.
2 Glue Down the last of the Track.JPG
The retaining wall sections were cut out and glued to some Mounting board to give it a bit more rigidity( I tested the 1:10 incline for retaining walls and couldn't see it when I leaned all the walls to that angle - so went with straight up walls instead)
I used the same Foam adhesive that I used to glue down the inclines to glue the Card to the Mounting card and then onto the foam itself. It gives a nice bit of Jiggle time.
3 Begin the Retaining wall on the outer line.JPG
4 Foam Glue for the retailing wall.JPG
Acid test - does the Eurostar Loco fit?
5 Clearance confirmation.JPG
Now - "To the tunnel campers!"
Getting back into railways, one step at a time.
Ned's Workbench - https://tinyurl.com/y4jby73c
The UppydownyRoundyRoundyRailway - https://tinyurl.com/y6stelsr
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NedFlanders
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"Ah Skew That Tunnel!!!"

Post by NedFlanders »

At the Tunnel end I tested a couple of angles of skew and picked one ( my new mantra is - "Lets Get it Done - otherwise if you prevaricate any longer you'll pause for too long again") and then considered the geometry of the skew tunnel entrance.

What I did was to get the Wordsworth Single tunnel portal template, work out what the distance between the abutments was if a eurostar coach was to fit, and then ( In paint) stretched the template in the horizontal axis until the gap at the base matched what the entrance would need to be. In my head this will keep the Height of the Tunnel entrance to what it should be so the cross section would be the same as if you cut a straight tunnel at that angle ( I'll see if I can do up a diagram to explain that better later).

I picked up some Foam board from "The Range", stuck the Template to it ( same foam glue) cut out some Metcalfe stone wall on the rail side
6 Wordsworth single tunnel entrance to give th ecorrect Skewed Entrance - Foam board.JPG
7a with Castle stone applied to the foam.JPG
And put on some buttresses etc., it wont win any architectural awards and I'm not sure that the Institute of Engineers would approve... but - "Lets get it done!" ;)
7b and a couple of Buttresses.JPG
Some Clearance testing - that looks odd from this angle!
8 now thats an outragous Skew.JPG
8 now thats an outragous Skew.JPG (102.07 KiB) Viewed 1402 times
Not so bad from this angle
9 the Pullman Fits.JPG
Getting back into railways, one step at a time.
Ned's Workbench - https://tinyurl.com/y4jby73c
The UppydownyRoundyRoundyRailway - https://tinyurl.com/y6stelsr
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