HS II - The Kadee Experiments

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Dad-1
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Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

HS II - The Kadee Experiments

Postby Dad-1 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:53 pm

Not exactly HS2, but it'll cost a lot less and be finished before the
first sod is cut on the prototype names sake.

This is a collaboration between my local buddy Derek and myself, as in fact
was 'Thomas and friends visit Bride Bay'.
We get frustrated by the clubs inactivity on any ideas. Committee builds take
for ever to get off the ground, everyone wants their ideas supported, getting
authority on finance very ponderous. The only thing everyone agrees on is that
we need more potential running space & time on club nights.

Enter..... The Dynamic Duo ....... Nothing's a problem !!

HS2, or HS II is a Happy Shunting layout, design 1 was a prototype and test-bed
loosely plugged together on the kitchen worktop. Based on the customary two
point, 3 siding Inglenook shunting puzzle.

Our Mk.I worked O.K, so a few basic requirements have been drawn up. Wiring
kept simple for a one locomotive in steam principal, will take either Analogue, or
DCC. We prefer DCC as we're looking for the fine very low speed control it usually
offers. Code 100 track with live-frog points, we contemplated code 75, but as we
already had everything needed in code 100 and being slightly more robust for club
use gave it the edge.

Image

A locomotive already ordered by me - Bachmann early BR 1F
Suitable 6 pin decoder and Kadee couplings by Derek.

Watch this space after Xmas ....... Derek is the woodwork man and away over Christmas.

Geoff >t
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Bufferstop
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Re: HS II

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:59 pm

Where are you going to put this one Geoff, you must be running out of space by now? Look forward to watching the build, will there be the usual little twist to the scenario?

John W
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

Dad-1
Posts: 5839
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: HS II

Postby Dad-1 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:07 pm

Hi Bufferstop,

It's being built for the Bridport & District club and we intend to store in the village hall cellar
although all stock will be stored at home. We will keep ownership, but want it to be used by
all and sundry with perhaps the club being persuaded to buy a locomotive and 5 suitable
wagons later if it gets used enough.
Derek wants us to experiment with Kaydee couplings although I have reservations and think
working with one end magnetic hook and a Magic Wand will be more adaptable. Working with
Kadees will certainly be new to me although I have driven an exhibition layout with them.

I don't know if it'll be interesting, but it will be a table-top layout. As VERY free rolling wagons
will move probably too easily unless absolutely level I'm planning a permanently built in bulls-eye
spirit level. I also fancy two of the small feet being adjustable to obtain that level track. It needs
feet as many tables found in halls have reinforced edges with a raised lip and we need to clear
those possible obstructions.

The two points operated by rod from the front to simplify. We have measured the width of my
car back seat, that comes out at 50". The original plan said it could be squeezed into 48", we
have decided on 1250 mm, or 49.1/4". Unless it's used at any local club exhibitions it shouldn't
need to move about much.

Derek is the woodworker and I have yet to persuade him to have a hinged back scene that will fold
forwards to act as the top of an enclosing box to protect most of the layout scenery. So much
planning to do, but this is something I enjoy doing. I hope we can pack into 1250 x 450 x 200.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Dave
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Re: HS II

Postby Dave » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:51 pm

Dad-1 wrote:We get frustrated by the clubs inactivity on any ideas. Committee builds take for ever to get off the ground, everyone wants their ideas supported, getting authority on finance very ponderous. The only thing everyone agrees on is that we need more potential running space & time on club nights.

Sounds very much like the Club I frequent.

A gang of four have been planning a superdooper Club layout for about three years. In that time two of us have built a 18' branchline terminus by recycling everything including the boards from stuff laying around in the Club store.

Dad-1
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: HS II

Postby Dad-1 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:16 pm

Hi Dave,

I'd have said Too many cooks, but if it's 4 of them, well they're just dreamers and will never succeed.
I hate committee builds a small energetic and dedicated group is needed, sometimes even a one
mad man can achieve more through focused effort - Hell YOU of all people should know that !! (As do I)

We're lucky that money & time are not hurdles we have to worry about. Not wanting to keep the layout
at home means making certain we can find enough space in the cellar, but IF push comes to Shove we
know we can keep either at his place, or mine. When I say money and time are as nothing it's because
we're both retired and this is a low cost exercise anyway, but the few hundred that we could perhaps
spend on 5 dedicated Kaydee fitted wagons, a new 0-6-0 loco and all our timber requirements is peanuts.

Tomorrow I should be getting my roll of 20" wide brown paper up from the shed to start 1:1 drawings.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Bufferstop
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Re: HS II

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:47 pm

Can't beat full size drawings, nothing beats finding the fouling points like trying it with the stock it will have to take. A number of people have commented on the fact that it's just possible to run round a four coach rake in my platform roads. I tried it out often enough on my roll of lining paper.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

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alex3410
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Location: Essex

Re: HS II

Postby alex3410 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:44 am

i was planning on printing my plans out full size so i could use them to help me cut up the MDF, only issue was it turned out to be something like 40 sheets of A3 paper :shock: not sure the boss would have liked that! :lol:


it sounds like an interesting project and i look forward to following its progress.

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carnehan
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Re: HS II

Postby carnehan » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:16 am

Your ability to develop multiple layouts continues to astound me Geoff. As you are aware, I'm struggling with the one! This looks like another interesting project and I look forward to its development next year.

Paul

Dad-1
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Re: HS II

Postby Dad-1 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:23 pm

Hi Paul,

I wish I could fully finish before I roll into the next project.
Still the Bachmann 1F arrived today, but as Derek's away for a few days
& I can't get the decoder until he returns.
In fact all on hold because we don't know what length we'll get with Kadees
fitted to the planned wagons. On that depends where the points will be
fixed - O.K we know within say an inch, but no cutting track until certain.
Again Derek bought the Kadees. I have no doubt we'll have to experiment
as to where we fix the magnets

We'll need a good discussion when he gets back .... I've got a sheet with
lists of details we need to clear before beginning. Hell this was going to
be a simple fast build ........

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Dave
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Re: HS II

Postby Dave » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:55 pm

carnehan wrote:Your ability to develop multiple layouts continues to astound me Geoff.


Will he succumb to the '2-2-Toot Scenic Adventure" I ask myself - Link

I am semi tempted :o

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carnehan
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Re: HS II

Postby carnehan » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:11 pm

Dave wrote:
Will he succumb to the '2-2-Toot Scenic Adventure" I ask myself - Link

I am semi tempted :o


Everyone should succumb to the 2-2-Toot Adventure. :D

Paul

Dad-1
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: HS II

Postby Dad-1 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:32 am

I had contemplated adding HSII only ......
I have so much going on we'd probably fail by a month, or so
regarding the finishing time.
I'm helping running a layout at the West Camel Club on 31st December
Running 'Thomas' at the Bridport clubs Beaminster exhibition 14th January
Then there is the Milton Keynes exhibition on February 18th
It tends to reduce building opportunities.

Never a dull moment though.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Dave
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Re: HS II

Postby Dave » Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:28 pm

Dad-1 wrote:I had contemplated adding HSII only ......I have so much going on

Probably a good decision Geoff, I am going to do something to get me through the winter months before a full layout in the spring.

Dad-1
Posts: 5839
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: HS II

Postby Dad-1 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:22 pm

We have had our Christmas & New Year break and today I was checking out
the framework of the baseboard. Particularly with regard to it's space requirement.
It will easily fit both the back seat of my car and Derek's. This checking is an
essential for anything you intend moving about !!

We have decide on a left hand track layout and I'm now about to cut track as well
as changing my points so a working test can be laid out. We are both 'New' to Kaydee
couplings and have to accommodate the magnets, leaving enough space to re-couple
before wagons are rammed against the stops !!

Next time some pictures ......

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
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Dad-1
Posts: 5839
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: HS II

Postby Dad-1 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:27 pm

Even now HSII is light years ahead of HS2, but we have had a slow start.

While Derek works on the fancy baseboard, wait until you see the lid fold !!
I have at last all the magnets and Kadee couplings. We have a test board to
try magnet locations and strength. The other quite difficult thing is setting
Kadees up to work reliably.
Here was the first magnet test.

Image

This uncoupled too near the V of tracks causing fouling. Then onto this, just
the odd extra sleepers gap.

Image

After one more small change of magnet placing I thought we had it about right.
BUT, always at least a couple of them !! The uncoupling was unreliable and the magnetic
tails were dragging on the between the rails magnets. We have some Kadee pliars to
adjust, but it's a very imprecise tool and even when none of those tails dragged we
still had a problem.

Image

It would seem that the off-centre mounting of any NEM pocket, even so small that tension
locks work perfectly can cause problems. Too free a rolling stock also presents difficulties
although weigh seems to have little influence.
I even had one Kadee out of the packet where the spring had become dislodged, these are
VERY small and should you drop on the floor I doubt that you'd ever find, I did keep all on
the table ... this time.
We have 3 magnets, the two between tracks and one big heavy magnet countersunk into the
board and under some mounting board. It is still so strong that it draws a wagon along making
uncoupling difficult. We will increase the depth with additional packing until we get the results
we want.
Were it not for our aim of having no Hand of God I think the Magic Wand method would be far
superior in functional reliability and at very low cost !!

We have however just started this journey ..........

Geoff T.
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