My As Yet Untitled 4x3 Roundy-Roundy

Post pictures and information about your own personal model railway layout that is under construction. Keep members up-to-date with what you are doing and discuss problems that you are having.
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roganty
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My As Yet Untitled 4x3 Roundy-Roundy

Postby roganty » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:11 pm

Hi everyone,

It's been a few months since I popped up and started on a layout for my layout.

I have done a couple of teasers on my other threads on how my layout is coming along, but now that I am actually laying track, I thought now would be a good time to create a new thread!

Before I begin, here is the track plan I am working from
mylayout6a-small.jpg
mylayout6a-small.jpg (67.8 KiB) Viewed 1847 times

Actually that's a lie! But it's the closest one I have as I have made a few tweaks to the plan since


Progress so far...
Image
P1030072 by Anthony, on Flickr

The sidings middle left are not yet fixed down, they are just there to test fit.
The double tracks on the left will be covered by a hill. I was looking at how to fit in a larger hill, by putting a curve on the middle siding I can manage that.

On the right I still have the inside loop to fit. I'm not sure how big to make the station, so I will leave that for now.

I've got a couple more bits of flexi-track to fit before I can complete the two main loops.

The track is stuck down with double sided tape (at least all the settrack curves and straights) and a couple of track pins. The points have been left floating for now


I am going to have to increase the space between the double tracks on the left. It is a little tight on the curves (gap between the rails) for my longest loco, and as that will be in a tunnel, I won't be able to keep my eye on it!

I am also going to have to get myself another right hand point and rethink my plan for the lower sidings

That's it for now, more details to follow...

Anthony
Main Layout: Planning | The Build

Erikslund - a small shunting layout

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Emettman
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Re: My As Yet Untitled 4x3 Roundy-Roundy

Postby Emettman » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:13 pm

There's always time to fiddle, especially when space is limited.

On the diagram (things may already have changed) the shorter sidings have the longer headshunt.

If the upper sidings also came off the inner loop they could share that that with the lower sidings as a decent headshunt... and save a point for elsewhere.

Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

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roganty
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Re: My As Yet Untitled 4x3 Roundy-Roundy

Postby roganty » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:09 am

Emettman wrote:There's always time to fiddle, especially when space is limited.

On the diagram (things may already have changed) the shorter sidings have the longer headshunt.

If the upper sidings also came off the inner loop they could share that that with the lower sidings as a decent headshunt... and save a point for elsewhere.

Chris


Hi Emettman,

It's taken me a couple of days, but I think I have finally twigged what you were saying!
I was just getting confused with upper/lower/inside, but looking at the diagram tonight, for some reason, I got it!

You mean move the point going into the upper sidings down to the inside loop on the right (probably somewhere along the station straight)

I can see where you're coming from, but I'm looking and I'm thinking I have way too many points on the right, and it's looking a little cramped as it is
(Bizarrely enough, a couple of days ago I was looking and thinking, "it's a long way to go for a train to move from the lower to the upper sidings, I wonder if I could join them somehow")

If you have anymore ideas I would love to hear them.

Anthony
Main Layout: Planning | The Build

Erikslund - a small shunting layout

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Emettman
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Re: My As Yet Untitled 4x3 Roundy-Roundy

Postby Emettman » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:15 am

roganty wrote:
Hi Emettman,

You mean move the point going into the upper sidings down to the inside loop on the right (probably somewhere along the station straight)

I can see where you're coming from, but I'm looking and I'm thinking I have way too many points on the right, and it's looking a little cramped as it is
(Bizarrely enough, a couple of days ago I was looking and thinking, "it's a long way to go for a train to move from the lower to the upper sidings, I wonder if I could join them somehow")

If you have anymore ideas I would love to hear them.

Anthony


To double check. I meant eliminate the second point from left on the upper edge (leading to the upper sidings) and re-connect the sidings to the ovals by taking the two sidings , which it will still be, off inner vertical St-11 This solves the short headshunt issue and frees up a Rt -hand point.

The point count seems reasonably even, given the cluster of five in the lower left quadrant. Where is you main operating position going to be?
Murphy's law suggests that the more points that are not easily within reach, the more those points tend to cause derailments.

Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

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roganty
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Re: My As Yet Untitled 4x3 Roundy-Roundy

Postby roganty » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:17 pm

Emettman wrote:To double check. I meant eliminate the second point from left on the upper edge (leading to the upper sidings) and re-connect the sidings to the ovals by taking the two sidings , which it will still be, off inner vertical St-11 This solves the short headshunt issue and frees up a Rt -hand point.

The point count seems reasonably even, given the cluster of five in the lower left quadrant. Where is you main operating position going to be?
Murphy's law suggests that the more points that are not easily within reach, the more those points tend to cause derailments.

Chris


Yeah thanks, that is what I was trying to explain in my own unique way!

How about, do as you suggested, but also keep the point at the top?

I'll have to fire up the old computer and have a play with scarm

Anthony
Main Layout: Planning | The Build

Erikslund - a small shunting layout

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Emettman
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Re: My As Yet Untitled 4x3 Roundy-Roundy

Postby Emettman » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:13 pm

roganty wrote:
I'll have to fire up the old computer and have a play with scarm

Anthony


Ah, I'm any Anyrail man, so swapping actual pictures not really easy

Alternate: take that upper headshunt and sidings and reverse its facing, with Lt hand point on the mainline.
That gives room for a better headshunt.
It puts all the groups of sidings on the same facing (largely counterclockwise operation) this is either a plus for making changes easily,
or a minus for making operation too simple, with less need to shift locos and brake vans to the other ends of trains.

Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

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roganty
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Re: My As Yet Untitled 4x3 Roundy-Roundy

Postby roganty » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:07 pm

Emettman wrote:Ah, I'm any Anyrail man, so swapping actual pictures not really easy

I can always set the picture as a background, then go over the top with tracks

Emettman wrote:Alternate: take that upper headshunt and sidings and reverse its facing, with Lt hand point on the mainline.
That gives room for a better headshunt.
It puts all the groups of sidings on the same facing (largely counterclockwise operation) this is either a plus for making changes easily,
or a minus for making operation too simple, with less need to shift locos and brake vans to the other ends of trains.


Thanks Emettman, I'll have a play with what I have at the moment.
Main Layout: Planning | The Build

Erikslund - a small shunting layout

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roganty
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Re: My As Yet Untitled 4x3 Roundy-Roundy

Postby roganty » Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:24 am

Details of construction:

The base is constructed out of 18X69mm PSE timber with a 9mm thick plywood screwed on top (very conventional!)
I went with 69mm width mainly for strength and so the baseboard wouldn't twist/warp when stored/moved around. Plus I wasn't sure how big point motors would be, so I thought 'the deeper the better'
Image
P1020704 by Anthony, on Flickr
I don't have any pictures of construction, but this shows the underside of one of the boards. the holes are for wiring.

This shows the start of construction for the viaduct
Image
P1020705 by Anthony, on Flickr
Those are 18mm diameter holes for the 15x15mm supports for the viaduct.
I will give more details on the construction of viaduct in a later post.

This one shows how I have attached the backscene to the baseboard
Image
P1020710 by Anthony, on Flickr
Since that photo I have reduced the number of screws holding it on, it is now five pairs of screws. I have used washers to 'prettify' up the back, eventually it will be painted.
The backscene is in total 230mm tall, and is exactly 6" high from the top of the baseboard, and it is constructed out of the same 9mm plywood as the top of the baseboard.

This shows the bolts I am using to hold the two halves together
Image
P1020712 by Anthony, on Flickr
That is two M10 60mm bolts with wingnuts.
I am planning on adding a third in the middle somewhere, as it does seem the the middle is slightly bowed.

Image
P1020725 by Anthony, on Flickr
And here is the cork rolls I brought from the Bristol Model Railway Show. That was £10 for the two rolls.
I don't have any photo's of the baseboard after laying the cork, but before starting to lay tracks, but it made a huge difference to the look of the baseboard after it was glued down!


Thoughts:
Before I started gluing the cork down I was thinking about gluing the baseboard frame and the baseboard together. I'm still thinking, even now, how I wish I had done it!
There is no flex in the baseboard, even across the join when bolted together, but there is a little little give diagonally across each separate half, which might of been solved by gluing it all together. Oh well!

I had considered, and I even brought the timber, of building a sub frame within the baseboard frame that would fit over our coffee table and stop it sliding about.
So far I have yet to place it on the coffee table, as I am building it on the dining room table. But I cannot see myself running trains on the coffee table, so I have not bothered.


More progress, and the building of the viaduct will follow in later posts.
Anthony
Main Layout: Planning | The Build

Erikslund - a small shunting layout

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Emettman
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Re: My As Yet Untitled 4x3 Roundy-Roundy

Postby Emettman » Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:54 pm

You are so neat! This is almost frightening.

Only in a good way.

Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

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roganty
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Re: My As Yet Untitled 4x3 Roundy-Roundy

Postby roganty » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:02 pm

Emettman wrote:You are so neat! This is almost frightening.

Only in a good way.


Thanks Emettman,

My work is not normally so neat, but I wanted to make sure the baseboard was solid, so I double checked all my measurements, and made sure there was enough screws everywhere!

Unless you were on about how I attached the back scene. That was going to be on show, so I made sure that all the screws lined up! Call it OCD if you want :D

Anthony
Main Layout: Planning | The Build

Erikslund - a small shunting layout

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Re: My As Yet Untitled 4x3 Roundy-Roundy

Postby Emettman » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:08 pm

roganty wrote:Unless you were on about how I attached the back scene. That was going to be on show, so I made sure that all the screws lined up! Call it OCD if you want :D

Anthony


I recently saw that they did that on the coaches of the Orient Express.

Chris
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."

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Re: My As Yet Untitled 4x3 Roundy-Roundy

Postby roganty » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:35 pm

I have a question about wiring up a layout.

In the image below is how I have wired up the left side of my layout. The dots indicate where I have power feeds, I am using rail joiners with attached power feed (Peco PL-82)

wiring.jpg
wiring.jpg (122.23 KiB) Viewed 1556 times


My issue is that I have a dead spot, the blue line.

I am unsure on how to apply power to this section. Originally I was just going to put a power feed on just the blue part.

But would this be ok? Or should I just put a feed on every rail?

Anthony
Last edited by roganty on Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My As Yet Untitled 4x3 Roundy-Roundy

Postby railwayjim » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:12 pm

Your layout is starting to take shape now, well built baseboards are the best foundation. Keep the pictures coming.

In answer to your wiring problem, if you are using dcc you would wire all track to make everything permanently live.
If its analogue the tracks should get a power supply to that track when the points are changed in their direction, unless the blades are not making a good contact.
If not you can add a wire to the line marked blue, but you would not be able to isolate that loop anymore using the points.

Hope this makes sense.

Jim.

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Re: My As Yet Untitled 4x3 Roundy-Roundy

Postby roganty » Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:35 pm

railwayjim wrote:Your layout is starting to take shape now, well built baseboards are the best foundation. Keep the pictures coming.

In answer to your wiring problem, if you are using dcc you would wire all track to make everything permanently live.
If its analogue the tracks should get a power supply to that track when the points are changed in their direction, unless the blades are not making a good contact.
If not you can add a wire to the line marked blue, but you would not be able to isolate that loop anymore using the points.

Hope this makes sense.

Jim.


Thanks railwayjim.

I forgot to mention that I am going to be using dcc.

I hope the picture below helps to explain better than me.
wiringa.jpg
wiringa.jpg (141.83 KiB) Viewed 1528 times

The blue section is 'dead' as I am using electrofrog points with insulated rail joiners on the frog.
I have two options to make the blue section live.

A. Add two droppers to the middle two rails. The outer rails will be getting their power from the feeds just past the points any way.

B. Just put droppers on all the rails. End of.

Originally I was going to go for A. but I am not sure if this would cause running issues.

Anthony
Main Layout: Planning | The Build

Erikslund - a small shunting layout

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Re: My As Yet Untitled 4x3 Roundy-Roundy

Postby railwayjim » Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:00 am

Wiring (A) would be my choice Anthony, you are then powering the two rails isolated by joiners at the points. I have
a run round loop just the same on 'Millsend' wired in this way, working perfectly, you will do the same on any
sidings fed by points to keep them live, just add power after the isolating joiner.

Hope this helps.

Jim.


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