Crossways Wagon Works - an experiment in 7mm

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Kentishman
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:02 pm

Crossways Wagon Works - an experiment in 7mm

Postby Kentishman » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:41 am

Background
Crossways Wagon Works is what remains of a much larger wagon and carriage works that was built before Grouping in 1923. The original company was absorbed into the Southern Railways, work continued until Nationalisation. The site was initially kept busy with new British Railways rolling stock but declined as freight traffic shrank, then became isolated from the network when the line that it ran off was closed by Beeching. The works were sold to the local authority to be divided and let out as temporary industrial units pending redevelopment that never seemed to come about. In the meantime a highly motivated preservation society had sprung up and purchased several miles of the old line. New track was laid and a motley assortment of rolling stock obtained. The local authority at last pushed its redevelopment plans through but, having seen the economic benefits of the tourism generated by the preservation line, decided to retain a small part of the old works for heritage purposes and leased this to the preservation society. There was a problem though: so much of the site had been absorbed into the redevelopment (swimming pool, sports and leisure centre plus flats at the other end of the site) that there was insufficient space for the points to provide a fan of track leading to the remaining three bays plus support buildings. This was overcome by building a traverser which also incorporates a 15” narrow gauge line, echoing the narrow gauge line that ran throughout the works in its heyday.

Inspiration
This started in a roundabout way from seeing Steve Bennet’s G nine examples at Expong at Swanley in 2013 (see http://www.Pepper7.com ).
771 Pepper7 (800x533).jpg
771 Pepper7 (800x533).jpg (287.96 KiB) Viewed 1771 times

He makes loco’s and wagons in 7mm scale as well; I started to get the idea for a shoebox layout based on these. I subsequently bought a Mite, the chassis coming from a Bachmann Plymouth.

Implementation
I recently came up with a plan on Any Rail that would use the Mite as a tiny works' shunter and showed this to friends in the Bridport club; Alan, who does O gauge, was enthusiastic and suggested that we build it. Given that the track work is a little unusual, I’ve decided to hand build it using C&L code 125 rail with copper clad strips. I haven’t attempted this before but there aren’t any turnouts and there are no curves, although the alignment of two gauges of track with a moving traverser will require a little care. The traverser also presents some challenges such as how it will be propelled and how to construct it so that it looks acceptable as the principal part of the scenic area. Another matter to be considered is the couplings: I really dislike seeing the ‘hand of God’ dipping into a layout and so I want to incorporate magnetic uncoupling but how to do this when using a narrow gauge loco to shunt either full size wagons or a narrow gauge service trolley has got me thinking.
So here’s the track plan for a single line feeding a three bay workshop, plus stores and a narrow gauge loco shed. The base board is 42”x 15” including a fiddle area at the back of the workshop. There will also be cassettes on the left for the line in (minimum 15”) and the stores narrow gauge (say 6” maximum).
0 & 09 36 x 15 wagon works v4 (800x286).jpg
0 & 09 36 x 15 wagon works v4 (800x286).jpg (109.79 KiB) Viewed 1771 times


More to follow.

Kentishman
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:02 pm

Re: Crossways Wagon Works - an experiment in 7mm

Postby Kentishman » Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:51 am

Baseboard Planning
We decided to make the baseboard from 6mm ply. I produced a cutting plan using Any Rail
0 & 09 36 x 12 wagon works cutting plan 3 (8x4) (800x400).jpg
0 & 09 36 x 12 wagon works cutting plan 3 (8x4) (800x400).jpg (91.6 KiB) Viewed 1733 times
and made a scale model from a print to see how this looked:
DSC_0336 (800x533).jpg
DSC_0336 (800x533).jpg (201 KiB) Viewed 1733 times
. Everything seemed satisfactory so we had an 8’ x 4’ sheet of ply cut to size at Bridport Timber. We’ve put this together using 12mm x 12mm softwood battens. The baseboard is nearly ready, a friend’s going to help me to neatly cut out the traverser section next week.
Attachments
2015-11-20 Crossways progress (2) (800x533).jpg
2015-11-20 Crossways progress (2) (800x533).jpg (195.51 KiB) Viewed 1733 times
2015-11-20 Crossways progress (1) (800x533).jpg
2015-11-20 Crossways progress (1) (800x533).jpg (212.61 KiB) Viewed 1733 times

Kentishman
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:02 pm

Re: Crossways Wagon Works - an experiment in 7mm

Postby Kentishman » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:23 pm

Baseboard progress
Here’s the base board for the scenic area and right hand fiddle yard, still to do are the mouse holes for the standard gauge entrance and the narrow gauge entry to the stores, the traverser and make a neat fixing between the left side and the back board.
2015-12-06 Crossways progress 03 (1) (800x533).jpg
2015-12-06 Crossways progress 03 (1) (800x533).jpg (254 KiB) Viewed 1694 times


Traverser progress
I made a mock-up to find out if the traverser would run at a controllable speed using a Kato non-bogie tram chassis and to find out at what height the traverser base should be set on the layout.
2015-12-06 Crossways progress 03 (3) (800x533).jpg
2015-12-06 Crossways progress 03 (3) (800x533).jpg (255.94 KiB) Viewed 1694 times
I used three rails instead of two, with the Kato in the centre and a Peco N gauge wagon chassis on either side as outriggers.
2015-12-06 Crossways progress 03 (5) (800x533).jpg
2015-12-06 Crossways progress 03 (5) (800x533).jpg (255.49 KiB) Viewed 1694 times
It’s rather fiddly to set up but ran reasonably, although a little fast. The addition of some weight was a great help, about 4oz (100g) on each side worked wonders. With a traverser travel of a fraction over 12”, the Guagemaster controller will creep it across in 90 seconds, about 0.0076 mph.

Track progress
I’ve mentioned that this is my first attempt at building track so I expect that I’m going about it in entirely the wrong way, however the fact that 9mm gauge and 32mm gauge are required on the same sleepers does complicate matters a little. I made up a finger board on an old offcut using a soft wood batten with hard wood spacers to give:
i) the correct sleeper spacing;
ii) place the rail at the correct distance in from the sleeper end .
2015-12-06 Crossways progress 03 (7) (800x533).jpg
2015-12-06 Crossways progress 03 (7) (800x533).jpg (293.17 KiB) Viewed 1694 times

I used a short piece of Peco O gauge flexitrack to find the sleeper length (60mm), hence the centre line is at 30mm. The inside of the narrow gauge track is 9mm/2 = 4.5mm plus the rail thickness of 1.7mm gives 6.2mm which, when taken from 30mm, leaves a spacing from the sleeper end of 23.8mm: so that’s how deep the fingers needed to be so that I could insert sleepers, solder the first rail, remove the section, turn it round, feed the other side into the jig, solder on the other rail and end up with N gauge track central on O gauge sleepers. The result is that it’s worked. I’ve had to redo some of the joints and, where too much heat has been applied, turn the sleeper over and try afresh on the clean side. This afternoon I did a 15” section of double spaced sleepers using a new tube of Draper’s lead/ tin, rosin cored solder. With a liberal brushing of Carr’s yellow flux, this went very well, needing only a shortish touch with a 50 Watt iron to get the solder flowing right under the rail and a thin silver line on the other side. Having checked that an N gauge wagon ran freely, a quick run up the centre with a slitting disc, connect to the controller and yes, the Kato chassis ran to and fro’.

Dad-1
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Crossways Wagon Works - an experiment in 7mm

Postby Dad-1 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:18 pm

Hi Kentishman,

I want to see the '0' motive power !!
As pretty a loco as you'll ever see.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Kentishman
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:02 pm

Re: Crossways Wagon Works - an experiment in 7mm

Postby Kentishman » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:38 am

Well Geoff, Santa did tell me that if I have my presents now, there’ll be nothing left for Christmas Day. Oh, all right then …

2015-12-08 Thames (8) (604x800).jpg
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2015-12-08 Thames (1) (800x378).jpg
2015-12-08 Thames (1) (800x378).jpg (223.31 KiB) Viewed 1651 times
2015-12-08 Thames (10) (800x533).jpg
2015-12-08 Thames (10) (800x533).jpg (244.63 KiB) Viewed 1651 times
2015-12-08 Thames (15) (489x800).jpg
2015-12-08 Thames (15) (489x800).jpg (252.68 KiB) Viewed 1651 times

Kentishman
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:02 pm

Re: Crossways Wagon Works - an experiment in 7mm

Postby Kentishman » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:40 am

Narrow gauge progress

Here are some of photo’s of the Mite from Pepper7. (There are now two versions available for either the Backmann Switcher or Kato 11-103 chassis: http://blackdogmining.weebly.com/locos.html - NB no connection, just satisfied customer) I won’t put the back panel on until the loco is painted. The O gauge wagon gives some idea of the shunting to come.
2015-12-03 Crossways progress 02 (2) (800x534).jpg
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2015-12-03 Crossways progress 02 (3) (800x456).jpg
2015-12-03 Crossways progress 02 (3) (800x456).jpg (214.25 KiB) Viewed 1621 times
2015-12-03 Crossways progress 02 (5) (800x533).jpg
2015-12-03 Crossways progress 02 (5) (800x533).jpg (240.41 KiB) Viewed 1621 times

whynot
Posts: 1977
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:37 pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Crossways Wagon Works - an experiment in 7mm

Postby whynot » Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:28 am

What a fascinating start - love it.

But...I've become entranced and enticed with 0-9 over recent weeks and seeing that loco may just have tipped me over the edge! Dreadful thing temptation. I think I shall have to DO something.

Thanks!
dave j
Works End 0 16.5
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=49336

Dad-1
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Crossways Wagon Works - an experiment in 7mm

Postby Dad-1 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:35 am

Rather like the earlier Aldi adverts.

I like that one ......... (resin yard traction)
But I like this one as well .......... (Even better, what a super little loco that Terrier is)

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Kentishman
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:02 pm

Re: Crossways Wagon Works - an experiment in 7mm

Postby Kentishman » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:44 am

whynot wrote:What a fascinating start - love it.

But...I've become entranced and enticed with 0-9 over recent weeks and seeing that loco may just have tipped me over the edge! Dreadful thing temptation. I think I shall have to DO something.

Thanks!


Cheers Whynot.
At £25 for a loco, plus chassis and couplings, it doesn't seem too much to make a start. Having seen what Dad-1 has done to his Minnie (and what a cracking little pair of loco's he's made), I think that Mite could be chipped too, if you're into DCC. In addition to Pepper7, Shapeways do some O9 wagons and carriages and there is also KBscale ( http://www.kbscale.com/ ) who mainly cater for O14 but their wagons can be adjusted to O9. I've bought a pack of three tipper wagons but haven't made them yet.

Kentishman
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:02 pm

Re: Crossways Wagon Works - an experiment in 7mm

Postby Kentishman » Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:39 pm

Track progress

I’ve now completed the test strip of dual gauge rail. I calculated that the first rail of the O gauge needed to be placed 12.3mm in from the end of the sleepers. To achieve this, I put wood screws horizontally into the backing batten behind and between the spacing fingers of the track jig.
DSC_0381 (800x533).jpg
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These enabled me to position the track precisely and solder it down.
DSC_0383 (800x533).jpg
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I then used a pair of roller gauges from C&L to position the remaining rail. An O gauge wagon ran freely, so all appears satisfactory.
DSC_0385 (533x800).jpg
DSC_0385 (533x800).jpg (182.45 KiB) Viewed 1590 times


Base board progress

I took the base board over to the club on Tuesday where Derek very kindly cut out the traverser pit, the piece extracted will be used as the base of the pit.
DSC_0391 (800x533).jpg
DSC_0391 (800x533).jpg (241.15 KiB) Viewed 1590 times

Kentishman
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:02 pm

Re: Crossways Wagon Works - an experiment in 7mm

Postby Kentishman » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:56 pm

Traverser progress
I started by drawing the traverser and its trackwork full size so I could be sure of the clearances and so I could decide whether to place the 9mm run-around track on the same sleepers as the O gauge and 9mm within, or to make the additional line as a completely separate track. Keeping all lines on one sleeper seemed to offer a neater option, so I went with that.
2015-12-18 Crossways progress (2) (800x533).jpg
2015-12-18 Crossways progress (2) (800x533).jpg (203.99 KiB) Viewed 1530 times


Having decided to go for the longer sleepers, I can’t use the original method of putting one rail in place then turning the track around and soldering on the opposite rail. Instead, I’ll position and solder the outside O gauge rail first then use the roller gauges to position the inside O gauge rail, followed by the inside 9mm track (using the O/9mm gauge described below). I can then turn the track around and position the sleeper ends to take the outside 9mm rail and finally position and fix the inside 9mm rail. To assist with this, I bought what C&L describe as their ‘economy’ O track gauge which is a rectangular, non-roller design.
2015-12-18 Crossways progress (3) (800x533).jpg
2015-12-18 Crossways progress (3) (800x533).jpg (141.83 KiB) Viewed 1530 times

To keep the 9mm track dead centre in the O gauge, I’ve very carefully cut and superglued pieces of copper clad strip into the centre recesses to give a 9mm track gauge for code 125 rail.
2015-12-18 Crossways progress (5) (800x533).jpg
2015-12-18 Crossways progress (5) (800x533).jpg (203.66 KiB) Viewed 1530 times

2015-12-18 Crossways progress (7) (800x533).jpg
2015-12-18 Crossways progress (7) (800x533).jpg (152.43 KiB) Viewed 1530 times

I checked the gauge with both off cuts of code 125 and with a short length of code 80 N gauge, both were held quite snugly.

Kentishman
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:02 pm

Re: Crossways Wagon Works - an experiment in 7mm

Postby Kentishman » Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:13 pm

April 2016 update
Traverser progess
I couldn’t summon up sufficient enthusiasm to make a new traverser, so very carefully measured and removed about an inch from the end of the mock-up and mounted that in the baseboard. To me it looks satisfactory at present, but has yet to be wired up and tested.
2016-04-12 Crossways Progress (1) (800x427).jpg
2016-04-12 Crossways Progress (1) (800x427).jpg (180.34 KiB) Viewed 1378 times

Track progress
I made a start on the two headshunts, the photo’ shows the first, 75% complete.
2016-04-12 Crossways Progress (5) (800x533).jpg
2016-04-12 Crossways Progress (5) (800x533).jpg (272.82 KiB) Viewed 1378 times
I’ve not bothered to take the narrow gauge to the very end as the bufferstop will prevent full travel. My track building method has changed: I’m now soldering one standard gauge rail first using the finger jig and ensuring that each sleeper is square to the rail before soldering it. I then attach the first rail and sleepers to the corresponding rail on the traverser with a track joiner. The second standard gauge rail is also joined to the traverser with a track joiner, then soldered to the sleepers using roller gauges to keep it precisely aligned. While there is plenty of room between the rails, I clean and polish the soldered joints using files then steel wool (having used a lot less solder in the first place and only soldering one face). After a thorough clean up, I use a homemade hardwood dual 0 and 09 gauge to position the narrow gauge rails, again starting by connecting each to the corresponding rail on the traverser for alignment. The joints on the first are cleaned before soldering the second. A final clean up of surplus solder is followed by a wash with Cif to give a fairly neat finish.

Rolling stock progress
I visited the Bristol Gauge O Guild show at the end of January and acquired: a Slater’s salt wagon kit; an old, unbuilt, Meteor plastic and white metal LBSCR Stroudley cattle wagon; an old unbuilt A.B.S. LBSCR open wagon in white metal; and a Slater’s rectangular tar wagon kit. I also splashed out on a Connoisseur Models' 4 wheeled birdcage brake coach, as an introduction to carriage building.
I went over to help at the Tonbridge MRC show in February and bought two Roxey white metal kits: an LBSCR 10t machinery truck and a LSWR 15t stone wagon. Together with a Roxey LBSCR Stroudley birdcage brake van and a couple of second hand trucks and vans that I’ve accumulated, there should be enough for running the layout and provide a decent little LBSCR themed goods rake to run behind ‘Thames’.
Finally I’ve just laid the headshunts, the traverser track and the first track test piece on the baseboard to give some idea of what the layout will look like.
2016-04-12 Crossways Progress (12) (800x533).jpg
2016-04-12 Crossways Progress (12) (800x533).jpg (243.29 KiB) Viewed 1378 times
The traverser track is deliberately too long at present and will need each end sleeper to be repositioned before trimming the surplus tracks and mounting on the traverser platform (to be made).
2016-04-12 Crossways Progress (15) (800x533).jpg
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2016-04-12 Crossways Progress (16) (533x800).jpg
2016-04-12 Crossways Progress (16) (533x800).jpg (244.86 KiB) Viewed 1378 times

Dad-1
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Crossways Wagon Works - an experiment in 7mm

Postby Dad-1 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:10 pm

I have an advantage of seeing this go through it's production
quite regularly. I'm really impressed by the quality of soldering
combined with a super jig.

Take your time it'll be well worth it.

Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32187 and Another on viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28436&start=60&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Kentishman
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:02 pm

Re: Crossways Wagon Works - an experiment in 7mm

Postby Kentishman » Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:24 pm

Thanks Geoff, you're too kind.

Kentishman
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:02 pm

Re: Crossways Wagon Works - an experiment in 7mm

Postby Kentishman » Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:14 pm

Damn and blast! Went to the garage to make a length of single gauge 9mm track to run into the stores but my soldering iron just wouldn't heat up. It's a cheapy adjustable that I bought about ten years ago, but it wasn't used much until recently when the 50 Watt output proved ideal for soldering the track. The light on the unit comes on but no heat. I tried an old 25 Watt iron (must have been another hand-me-down from my Father - the brand is 'Henley') but the tip's the wrong shape and there just isn't enough power from 25W to get suficient heat into the joint. Still, at least I've more of an idea of what I need as a replacement: adjustable (or plugged into a dimmer switch - per Bufferstop), minimum 50W and a selection of tips. I'll trawl the web this evening and there's the Bristol show next weekend too, I know Squires will be there.


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