St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Post pictures and information about your own personal model railway layout that is under construction. Keep members up-to-date with what you are doing and discuss problems that you are having.
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TimberSurf
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby TimberSurf » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:33 am

Timbologist

I don't think your actually disagreeing! I may not have mentioned what to you and me is second nature (I am just too lazy to write reams of text)

Parallel LED's is a nono - for reasons Timbologist mentions above.
Series LED's works well - but all need to be from the same batch of manufacture to ensure similar brightness (max of 3 or 4) {ALL commercially available LED strips are made this way) {Caveat being if they fail, slightly harder to determine the culprit}
Individual LED's have their own resistor - this is the BEST solution (no issues with failures and brightness individually setable)

Using a resistor to reduce brightness is not the best option (PWM pulse width modulation is far better) but may (or may not) be cheaper!
If a 'pot' (potentiometer = variable resistor) is used, it should not be alone. A fixed resistor should be fitted to set full brightness. A pot can then be added in series to reduce the brightness. Minimum pot wattage needs to be a 0.25W for one LED (with 12V supply) {0.5W or bigger is safer}, or proportionally bigger for each LED added. As pots are pennies, better to buy one per LED rather than high wattage, high ££'s that does all. Plus allows individual setting of each LED brightness.
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby timbologist » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:14 am

Unfortunately I deplore people that say you can't or should not do something without giving hard technical reasons to back them up.
" I not seen this on this forum which is a good thing, but in life there is to much of it"
So If I want to discuss something I will provide the facts behind what I say, hence lots of text to go with it, I am no expert, but just want to give a correct answer to a question.

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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:38 pm

Thanks for the replies chaps.
Although it has left me somewhat confused with what to buy and how to wire it all up.

If I may, I want to go back a few steps....
My usual method for ANY LED's wether single or connected to vero board with other LED's is to have 1KOhm resistor on EACH positive leg of ALL LED's.

The LED's are not usually connected together, only on the same "track" on the vero board.
So as such, a piece of vero board 4 "tracks" wide is laid out thus.....

VeroboardWiring.jpg
VeroboardWiring.jpg (85.99 KiB) Viewed 495 times

Outer "tracks" carry the positive and negative from the power supply, 1 either side.
Inner "tracks" carry the LED.
Resisitors bridge the gap between the positive "track" and the positive legged "track" hole for the LED
A simple wire link connects the negative legged "track" and the actual outer negative "track"

NOTE: I split the positive legged "track" between each actual LED so they are not connected together, only taking the power through the resistor from the positive "track"

Apologies for the use of the term "track". I don't know what the proper term is on the vero board

My idea to use multiple resisitors connected together BEFORE all the LED's to bring down the light level was to eliminate so many resistiors for a small space.
Thus the idea of having a "pot". One of these before the power goes onto the LED's, giving me only one "variable" componant.

What about this?
One 1KOhm resistor on ALL LED's (my usual way as shown above) but add a variable resisitor inline from the power source.
So all LED's would be singularly protected PLUS the variable to reduce the light over the whole.
Thanks
End2end
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TimberSurf
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby TimberSurf » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:53 pm

If you wish to do it that way, then as Timbologist says, you will need a 2w rated variable resistor, as ALL the combined currents of resistors and LED's are going through the pot.

Cheaper and far better control (plus remote) is 12V-Wireless-Remote-Switch-Controller-Dimmer

Else wire 3 LED's in series times three and use a smaller wattage variable resistor
Having just tried, choosing the right size pot will be a nightmare, it is NOT a linear relationship to brightness!


I don't bother with stripboard, an example is my Engine shed that is wired with six sets of three LED's in series and just one resistor for all. There are three separate circuits (main and two sets of side lights), the pic below shows two of the resistors glued just below the roof in a corner.

2 of 3 circuits resistors.jpg
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End2end
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:19 pm

TimberSurf wrote:Cheaper and far better control (plus remote) is 12V-Wireless-Remote-Switch-Controller-Dimmer

AH! I have some of these.
Just attatch them inline from the 12v lighting bus?

Using veroboard just makes life easier for me Timbersurf and keeps my messy creations as tidy as possible. :lol:

I was thinking of using one long piece of veroboard right along the whole buildings length, with each LED + resistor attached along it's length as per the previous picture.
As it's rigid it also helps to strengthen the building somewhat once glued into place. (mainly the internal walls).
Thanks
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby TimberSurf » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:10 pm

End2end wrote:
TimberSurf wrote:Cheaper and far better control (plus remote) is 12V-Wireless-Remote-Switch-Controller-Dimmer

AH! I have some of these.
Just attatch them inline from the 12v lighting bus?

Yep!
Add resistors at 12v to set to full brightness, then dim to desired level with the module
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby timbologist » Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:18 am

It's a pain being out of whack time wise I miss out on the current conversation and get the end of it.
Anyway sorry about confusing you, but unfortunately in electronics there are some basic laws and rules that govern how components are selected, and if not followed things can get pear shaped pretty quickly and have nasty effects. So I want you to be aware of these things so you can do things correctly and have no problems. Be safe and not be disappointed about the results.

And as usual "TimberSurf" thank you for the translation of what I have said,

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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby burnie » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:38 pm

I have a lot of reading to do, looks like this thread is just what I'm needing for my own layout, some very fine work done

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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:03 pm

Thanks for your kind comments burnie. Copy whatever you like. :)
A long way to go on the full layout yet but I'm busy making up more Linka tiles for the roof of the station building at the moment.
I need to add the gable walls and then I can undercoat it and show some more pictures before moving forward.

After a little reasearch into GWR stations, I think I will add a horizontal canopy on the platform side. It should be easy enough to make the framework out of balsa but I would like some proper looking GWR valancing around the edge. There's a few options available that I know of but I'll choose which at a later date. First I need a roof! :shock:

LINKA...... It'll get you plastered :lol:
Thanks
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby Bufferstop » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:09 pm

Ratio/Wills do a pack of valancing which is ok for Great Western. It's deep enough for the tallest they used and not too difficult to trim a bit off the top for the shallower ones.
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:14 pm

I am waiting for glue to dry again so here's roughly what the station building will look like.
Image

@Timbersurf.
I was also looking at the 4A18 Slaters GWR Station Awning but I don't think it's a full awning, rather just the valance.
I'll look into the Ratio/Wills version.
Thanks
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby TimberSurf » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:26 pm

End2end wrote:@Timbersurf.
I was also looking at the 4A18 Slaters GWR Station Awning but I don't think it's a full awning, rather just the valance.
I'll look into the Ratio/Wills version.

Your eyesight :o is getting worse!

Regards
Bufferstop :lol:
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:38 pm

Is the sprue part the actual canopy on the Slaters kit then as I don't see anyting else in the packet?
I also found these..
These 2 items would give a nice look and a sloped shape to the ends from L-Cut
http://www.lcut.co.uk/index.php?product ... R%2000-11c
http://www.lcut.co.uk/index.php?product ... R%2000-12c

The same with these..
http://www.timbertracks.co.uk/index.php ... rch=awning

I also found some coopercraft ones but I cannot find a picture of them. Are'nt coopercraft products metal though?
Thanks
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby TimberSurf » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:54 pm

I don't think any of those include the roof, they are just edgings. Only Dapol and ratio do a complete canopy. Don't forget it will need glass panels in the roof!

Your eyesight :o is getting worse by the minute!

Regards
Bufferstop :lol:
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:29 pm

TimberSurf wrote:Your eyesight :o is getting worse by the minute!

*'HIC'* yessh thatss what I get for a day on the tilessshh. :lol:
I take it you mean the Ratio / Wills 516 Timbersurf.
After perusing all, I think I prefer the L-cut 2 items but as these are details I won't need to buy them just yet but now I know which ones I do want. :)
Thanks
End2end
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