St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Post pictures and information about your own personal model railway layout that is under construction. Keep members up-to-date with what you are doing and discuss problems that you are having.
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End2end
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:12 am

Bufferstop wrote:Whoever said insulfrogs were easy, specially with DCC :roll:

Most definatly Bufferstop. I tried to make my first layout as simple as can be. No turntable (as at the real St Blazey), no reverse loops, no electrofrog or double slip wiring, DCC instead of DC but it seems the step between twin oval train set and a more serious layout is indeed one giant leap for modeller's kind.
Hopefully the IRJ's will turn up tomorrow and will be the soloution to the short circuits.
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ParkeNd
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby ParkeNd » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:10 am

Hi E2e. This has proved an absorbing thread and must have been of great value to anyone contemplating the apparently conservative and safe strategy of using insulfrog points and Setrack. Modern Peco flexitrack and electrofrog points is really much easier despite often being made to sound scary for new modellers. However, you will get it sorted out and then you can move on to the next step. Thanks for posting in such detail.

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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:09 am

Thanks ParkeNd for your inspiring words. As a returner to the hobby, that I wasn't very good at from many moon's ago, I hadn't even heard of electrofrog points or having to add extra wiring to points. But I will say in my personal case, and as stated before, I need to use setrack points due to thier geometry, but after the mishaps or non-knowledgeable learner mistakes I have made /come across, I would say, if you have the space, definatly go for the streamline track with electrofrog points route (excusing the pun of course ! :lol: ).
Don't be fooled modellers, into thinking setrack means set it up and go, as we can see from my mishaps, musings and meanderings that it definatly doesn't do what is says on the tin ... or in my case packets and carded packets :lol:

I'm hopefully going to have the chap with me to fit the IRJ's which came today, who was with me on Saturday helping me figure out what was what in continuity terms.

The journey....has stalled for water intake.
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby PinkNosedPenguin » Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:52 pm

I for one am now desperate to find out what the issue was :o
My money's on a faulty point, or a simple wiring error (easily done) - I mean insulfrog points really SHOULD NOT be this hard :lol:
Hope you get it sorted soon E2E, and please do put us out of our misery when you do . . . 8)

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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:29 pm

Helpful chap booked for tomorrow so shall let you all know the synopsis. Who'd have thought railway modelling was edge of the seat stuff :?: :lol:
I think you maybe right PNP about the broken point, but if that is the case then there's more than 1 to replace.
More drama than Dallas, more current than Tomorrow's World :!:
Still sat in the engine shed... :roll:
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby Bufferstop » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:18 am

I'm curious to know what gives with those points, I've had electrofrogs with no continuity. The only settrack points 've had that did that were deliberately modified ones.
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:12 pm

Bufferstop wrote:I'm curious to know what gives with those points, I've had electrofrogs with no continuity. The only settrack points 've had that did that were deliberately modified ones.
I'm with you Bufferstop. The points look A OK by sight with no modification whatsoever. Strange, very strange. :?
The only thing that shows them as used some markings where the track pins go.
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:59 am

SOLVED!! :mrgreen:
By adding 2 IRJ's each between points 1 and 4 & 9 and 14 this solved the short circuits.
All droppers added (bar one that fell off at the end of one of the sidings) and running mostly smoothly. I think some of the wagons and 4 wheel coaches need some weight as sometimes they ride over the points derailing and I still get the odd short circuit if points 9 and 14 and not switched as a pair, but apart from that we have been playing tra.... er...I mean testing most of the evening. :lol:
I will say the mix of couplers I have don't like to work together too well and I think this also causes some of the derailings.
Let this be a lesson from St Blazey's to all new modellers. Buy some IRJ's just in case. :idea:
Next comes point motors :?

One thing that hasn't gone to plan is the frontmost left siding (Siding S to point 15 in the earlier diagram). After adding the track I now realise that this siding is too close to the track above to fit a platfrom inbetween. One thing I thought of was to use a peice of flexitrack to bring the siding out closer to the front making the gap between the tracks wide enough. (Currently to bend the track out on siding S, coming off point 15 there is 2 x Peco ST-203 + 1 x ST-225 ----- 3 x Peco ST-203 + 1 x ST-225 is too long making the track hang over the front of the layout).
Can flexitrack be used with normal Peco setrack? I have fishplates so thats no problem, both metal and IRJ's left over.
Also can flexitrack be bought in single pieces as I would only need a metre at most?

Tickets bought and we're on our way. :arrow:
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby ParkeNd » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:22 am

Solved!!!! Wonderful news and well done. I had a strong feeling about IRJs with all those little circles being create by point arrays.

Yes - Peco flexitrack is sold everywhere in single pieces. It's so cheap that buying two pieces might be expedient for some yet to be identified use.

There are people who say that Setrack and flexi are enough different not to be joined - but hundreds of people do so with no problems. Go for it.

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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby nickbrad » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:10 am

As long as you buy code 100 track, then you can join it to your flexitrack with no issues whatsoever, if you have a local model shop nearby, they should stock it in single lengths. In fact, I remember years ago when I went into a model shop, (Trains4u I believe, back in 2001 or thereabouts,) they seemed surprised when I purchased the entire box rather than a few lengths lol.
I'm glad you've solved the points issue, I stayed quiet as I didn't have any ideas to help solve it, the logic stated that it should all work, having said that, I have IRJs throughout my layout just in case

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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby MrH » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:43 am

End2end wrote:SOLVED!! :mrgreen:


By adding 2 IRJ's each between points 1 and 4 & 9 and 14 this solved the short circuits.

I still get the odd short circuit if points 9 and 14 and not switched as a pair, but apart from that we have been playing tra.... er...I mean testing most of the evening.



Sorry to put a downer on this however you state you are still getting short circuits if you dont fix it now it will only get harder as you add point motors and ballast etc and you will get frustrated when running it as your playing with trains has shown.........
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:51 am

Thanks for the replies members.
nickbrad wrote:As long as you buy code 100 track, then you can join it to your flexitrack with no issues whatsoever

The flexitrack would be connecting to a Peco ST-241 left hand point. Sorry I don't know what code this track is?

MrH wrote:Sorry to put a downer on this however you state you are still getting short circuits if you dont fix it now it will only get harder as you add point motors and ballast etc and you will get frustrated when running it as your playing with trains has shown.........

Ahh sorry I should have made myself more clear MrH. The short circuit only happens if one of the points is set the wrong way for the transfer to the other track. This however is not an issue as once the point motors are wired up these 2 points will only be able to be switched as a pair anyway via 1 switch. So the short circuit only happens at the moment, due to human error of not setting the route properly. Also as you can imagine a cause of some stupid derailments. :roll:

Also I forgot to mention in yesterdays / early this mornings post......
I Chipped my first loco :mrgreen: My Bachmann Jinty. Not changed it's number yet as I am getting Mrs End2end to scan the loco indentifier strip for the controller so I can add pictures on it in photoshop then print it out. :mrgreen:
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby Bufferstop » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:56 am

Not quite solved. You will continue to get occasional short circuits whilst running. Do you have a DC power source. (A battery will do) If so connect it in place of your DCC controller and check the polarity on the rails at droppers A,D,H,I,O and S.
I think you will find they are reversed compared to B,E,J, or P. Your meter will show a negative voltage (use 20V DC range) if they are. It's the only remaining explanation I can think of.
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:08 am

Thanks Bufferstop. I'll try those tests today.
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby nickbrad » Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:52 pm

End2end wrote:Thanks for the replies members.
nickbrad wrote:As long as you buy code 100 track, then you can join it to your flexitrack with no issues whatsoever

The flexitrack would be connecting to a Peco ST-241 left hand point. Sorry I don't know what code this track is?

Thanks
End2end


My bad, it was supposed to say, code 100 flexitrack will connect to setrack points and track fine as that also uses code 100 rails. Code 75 is the finer scale stuff, which although special fishplates do exist to connect code 75 and 100, it would be more expensive and pointless, (no pun intended,) in this case.


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