St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

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End2end
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:33 am

The seating seller contacted me this morning with a new listing for the 18 I need for £1.50 so I ordered them straight away.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322367909409
Happy days. :D
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Tricky Dicky
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby Tricky Dicky » Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:31 pm

End2end wrote:Oh dear that's going to need a rethink then :?
I've seen double CR2032 holders too but I jumped at CR2032's as they are so small rather than another source but .....
Image
:lol:
Any suggestions? Baring in mind they need to fit under the coaches themselves.
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End2end


Unfortunetly with current battery technology size determines duration. One possible solution might be if you can get your hands on some mobile phone batteries particularly from older phones when batteries were removable. At the Manchester MRS Christmas show there was a demonstrator exhibiting RC loco control. The batteries to power the locos were quite small and slim, he assured me you could get an hour or more running of a loco motor from one charge. With LEDs drawing far less current you could probably extend that duration. I am unable to find any information on the demonstrator but suggest you contact Phil Sweet at Manchester MRS he might be able to point you in the right direction.

Richard

PS Try a PM to Allegheny1600

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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby TimberSurf » Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:29 pm

I am sure you have considered pick up power (viewtopic.php?f=24&t=21586)
But if this is too complex and you need to run on batteries, your options are limited, due to battery size (especially as its a small coach)
I doubt you will fit anything larger than the CR2032, there are bigger coin cells (1000mAh) or AAA etc but they will all be too big.
I think the best option is to use an auto switch, eliminating over use, thus saving life. Train tech do the whole thing http://www.train-tech.com/index.php/lig ... h-lighting, but also just the battery holder on its own http://www.train-tech.com/index.php/lig ... h-lighting
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:21 am

Thanks for the replies chaps. I will answer both here.
I think I know the phone batteries you mean Tricky. Like the old sony ericsson long ones. Probably quite rare now.
There are all these new drone batteries which as you can imagine do not last long in a drone with at least 4 motors and perhaps a camera but maybe a possibility. One major factor would be the saftey issue. If they get damaged they can act like incendury(?) bombs spurting fire like Smaug (Can you tell I've already been watching Christmas films? :lol: )
Here's my drone and it's bigger than 2 open flat hands. The battery (without going to measure it) is about 5 x 3.5cms which is slightly too big.
XPredatorDroneSM.JPG
XPredatorDroneSM.JPG (21.34 KiB) Viewed 1069 times


I have considered pick up power but there's some thing's I would need to know first.
I know just the DCC Concepts pick up springs (not wipers) alone cost around the £20 mark. I would need 10 to complete all 5 four wheel coaches but I would imagine these could be used elsewhere if I have any left over.
Could these just be soldered to the wire attached to my lighting bars already which are constructed with 1K resistors on EACH LED?
OR.... would I need a fancy electronic circuit to use the DCC power for my lighting bars?

The train-tech ones are good. I already have one installed into my bubble car but mine are basically the same without the movement sensor.
This is why I was looking at the CR2032 case as it has an on/off switch on it, bearing in mind that this is no longer relevent as a single CR2032 does not have enough power for the 3 LED's. So if I was to use some sort of battery I would like to be able to switch it off.

My other thoughts on using a battery underneath led me to think on camera batteries. Shorter than even an AAA but I've never seen a recharger unit for that sized battery.
The search for power continues and I have elevated this project to the 2017 competition.......gawd elp me! :o :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50754
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby TimberSurf » Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:04 am

Train tech do a 3 light led with the auto battery holder, it will last 1/3 of the time your current tail light will! The point is that the auto sensor will maximise the life, a switch will inevitable be left on at some point and drain the battery, plus difficult (a pain) to switch on and off on each carriage. Its probably your easiest option. The poignant point would be to keep the lights dim, to reduce current and therefor life expectancy. (no need to run at full 20mA ea)
How long does your 1 LED battery last?

You could fit digital LiPo batteries for digital cameras, 3.7v and lots of power, 1,000mAh vs 240mAh and could be recharged, but they are bigger than cells and would barely fit. (£8 for one battery and £5 for charger)

Other manufacturers make brass pick ups (<£2 ea), but your right, you would need further circuitry, either a rectifier as a minimum, or better, a rectifier, a super capacitor and a current limiter device and voltage limiter, that would give flicker free. I developed and tested the circuit about 5 years ago and its my plan, for my carriages. You could find your own springs, instead of buying DCC's, ball point pen ones are about the right size.

Nice quad! When do we get the sweeping aerial shots of the layout?

Merry Xmas E2E and all
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:31 pm

Thanks for the reply Timbersurf. I cannot seem to find the 3 LED train tech item. Do you know which product number it is by any chance?
Your own circuit sounds quite large as dimensions go. What was the smallest you managed to get them down to?
They would have to fit underneath in the gap in the chassis rather than inside.

Sorry for any confusion, the Train-tech item I already have is not a brake light but a full coach lighting strip so I am not sure how long it lasts but as the engine came with it inside I would have assumed the battery was used before I bought it and it's still going.
But I don't runs trains everyday, far from it.

Ahh yes LiPo batteries. Those were what I was thinking of when mentioning the smaller sized camera batteries.
The drone is really too big to fly indoors. I might have to take that video by holding it rather than flying it. :lol:

At the moment I'm trying to work out how much all this is going to cost each way as budget is limited but I would pay for the perfect soloution.
I ordered more 7/0.2mm wire in black and red last night so they will be on thier way soon and I will need some more cheap seated passengers.
Hopefully the February deadline means they will get here from China in time. :shock: :lol:

And lastly....Santa delivered a new caravan to add to the fleet. :D
Image
An Oxford Diecast Carlight Continental Caravan newly released in 2016.....Thanks fat bloke! :lol:
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby TimberSurf » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:38 pm

Sounds like the train tech kit is the solution!
Its the same one you have, but you just cut off as many as you don't require from the 5 and it will work. http://www.train-tech.com/index.php/lig ... h-lighting, but as I suggested, you may be better with the standalone battery pack, as you already have LED's and the battery pack needs to be NOT in the roof!

End2end wrote:Your own circuit sounds quite large as dimensions go. What was the smallest you managed to get them down to?
End2end


Far from it! Using super cap keeps size down, but my circuit needs a regulator, but its just the size of a transistor, cap is 18mm dia by 5mm, bridge rec is 8mm square x 2mm, all fits in the toilet. After power is lost, cap supports lights for over 30 secs!
If you don't need flicker free, all you need is the bridge rectifier!
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:07 pm

Just re-reading the link you gave Timbersurf - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=21586
I took a look at the 2nd photo down and that seemed more flexible than the train tech ones being that the LED's need to go in a certain place in each compartment of the 4 wheelers. The problem is the availablity. I jumped over to DCC Concepts website only to be greeted with..
DCCconcepts have enjoyed great success with their Flickerfree and Flickerfree2 ranges which are unfortunately now sold out.
We are creating a whole new range of Flickerfree products – along with a new range of related Fx special effects products right now, however we are sorry to have to let you know that while all of the development work is complete… because we have so many new things underway, release of this new range is currently delayed.
Check back often, because the new range will take coach and rolling stock lighting to an all-new level of high quality performance and realism… and the FX range will progressively add some really useful things to add layout realism and interest – including on-board power storage, automation triggers, localised layout sound devices and perhaps even video accessories!

I wonder if the little circuit boards contain the whole circuit I would need to run them on DCC. I don't know the actual size of them but they look as if they would fit underneath the coaches but I also wonder if they are available seperatly so I could still use my lighting bars that I have created.
I would still need to buy the pick up springs so depending on price once they are available the packs may even be cheaper but they need to hurry up...I've got competition pieces to complete! :lol:
As for fitting in a toilet, that would be ideal in a larger coach. Being as the 4 wheelers are very short I wanted all 3 compartments visable with passengers.
The boiler's not the only thing..... that needs lighting :!: :mrgreen:
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:29 pm

A gratuitous shot from my competition entry.
Don't get too excited just yet...it's only connected temporarily to a 9v battery. :lol:
Image

I'm wondering, could this method be used to light the 3 LED's (all with 1K resistors attached) in my 4 wheel coaches using rail pick up?
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=50798&p=622375#p622368

Rolling out the rolling stock.
:mrgreen:
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby TimberSurf » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:49 am

1. There are more options than just the DCC springs, byro pen springs, phosphor bronze (@ about £2 a pair), etc,
2. See Brian Lamberts site, just a resistor and a bridge rectifier are needed to convert DCC for use on your light bar
3. If flicker free is required, a capacitor is needed, it can be small, if only to cover little breaks in the track pickup. Its only when several seconds of loss of power are to be covered, that either a big capacitor is required, or as per my design, a supercap and some power control has to be used. (usually best used for DC)
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:10 am

Thanks for the reply Timbersurf.
On number 1. Yes sadly the DCC springs are expensive and I don't have the skill to install phospher bronze strip but the biro pen springs I might be able to use. I'm sure £1land would have a load for...well...a pound lol :D

On number 2. Is this the page you mean? - http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC%20Lighting-20.png

The problem is I'm not sure how to work out what I need in regards to the actual phsyical products or the maths involved.
I did look on ebay briefly for bridge rectifiers and theres a multitude to choose from so I just ended up getting lost in them all.
Would R1 definatly have to be 470R and the Capacitor (I take it this is for stay alive purposes) be 470uF according to the maths with calculating that the resistors on each LED are 1KOhm and cannot be changed.
These extra componants will need to be bought so any links to suitable componants would be a great help but I need to check if I have some 470R's as somehow I thought I'd bought some already.

And obviously again, this would all need to fit in the void underneath the coach perhaps soldered onto a peice of vero board somehow.
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:16 pm

I'd like to link this up with my competition thread and continue the power equiries there rather than here.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50754
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:21 pm

Finally my two 4 Ohm 3w speakers turned up today. I tested both one after the other on the working usb mp3 board and they both work. :D
Also I removed my pipettes from my paint brushes jar yesterday as trying to sift through them and all my brushes was a pain when I was only looking for a really thin brush but today I was given an empty whey power plastic cylindrical container which is wide enough to fit all my paint brushes and the like in. The problem was it was too tall so I cut it down somewhat but this made it too flexible so the piece I cut off I then turned upside down and using a hot glue gun reattached to give the containter it's strength back but now about an inch shorter. Now I have more than enough space for all my items and many more. :D
As I'm waiting on more electronics to arrive I've had to put the 4 wheel coaches aside for the moment so I got my Metcalfe GWR benches out and have started by painting the ironwork brown in thier cardboard press-out sprues. They are TINY :shock:
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:43 pm

That's better! :D
NewBrushesPotsm.JPG
NewBrushesPotsm.JPG (29.25 KiB) Viewed 852 times


I've put the benches to one side for now as I carry on with my competition entry now that all the items needed have arrived.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50754&p=623335#p623330
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:10 pm

Most of my modelling time has been taken up with the current forum competition and some purchases have been made both to finish my entry plus other general layout items.
The competition items I needed were...
Circuit Works CW2000 Nickel Conductive Pen for drawing tracks on PCB 9ml nickel paint grey at the cheapest price I could find which was from ebay. This is to electrify axles for track pick up power.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201730361079? ... EBIDX%3AIT
A new multimeter with continuity buzzer and backlight. Not only for testing continuity on my competition entry but also other general electronics work.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191921991924? ... EBIDX%3AIT
A new pointed tip for my Weller soldering iron. It's good but I think I would still like a small 1mm or so flat head bit too at around the same price.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/381273133505? ... EBIDX%3AIT

And for the layout, another "St. Blazey" brake van and another covered china clay wagon both weathered, totalling 2 and 3 respectively.

I noticed running a rake across a point that one wagon was derailing each time. A quick whip out of my DCC Concepts back to back gauge showed the wheels were well out. Quickly sorted. I love this tool! :D
Now back to gluing more passengers into my short coaches to win this competition! :D

"All aboard..............the right train!"
:lol:
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