St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Post pictures and information about your own personal model railway layout that is under construction. Keep members up-to-date with what you are doing and discuss problems that you are having.
heda
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby heda » Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:43 am

Probably not much help but thinking methodically and without any great electrical knowledge.
The controller is working fine.
No issue with droppers and bus wires.
Track clean, no debris.

That leaves the socket that the controller plugs into, can you just disconnect it from the bus.
Next more likely the points, maybe try connecting the multimeter across the track and manually switching each set of points in turn.
The last resort is having to remove the point motors, are the pins replaceable ? If not to replace them could you push a long rod down through the tie bar, attach to the top of the motor pin with a tiny drop of superglue, once dry it will guide the motor pin back then just snip or cut the join.
Hope this helps.
Dave

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End2end
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:24 am

Bufferstop wrote:Doesn't this sound rather familiar. I can't remember what the cause turned out to be then, but it does make me wonder if an old foe has come back to haunt you. Try looking for what was the cure then!


That was an issue with isolated rail joiners if I remember rightly. I had to add them to all the V's of the points, which I did.
I'll reiterate that the whole layout was working perfectly before adding the point motors.

I've now cut the layout in two by cutting the tracks and will try to find which side the short is on, front or rear.
If that doesn't work I will start ripping out all the wiring I've done except the DCC bus. If the short circuit still persists, even with the controller croc clipped to the track then more brutal measures will have to be taken.

@heda
The controller has one of those green 4 way screw-in connectors that is wired to a connecting block attached to the layout.
I've tried bypassing the layout connection and croc clipped the controller to the track directly. Same result unfortunately.

As for the meter. I never did quite learn how to read one properly and that's why I bought one with an audible warning of short circuits.
I had the same problem trying to read Oscilloscopes in college. I never understood them properly.
How on Earth I got the student of the year award I don't know. hahahaha.
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Bufferstop
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby Bufferstop » Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:48 am

It would help if the bus was similarly divided. Ideally each half brought out to some accessible point, working on the underside of the board never gets any easier.
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End2end
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:08 am

After more investigation and now with the layout cut in 2 electrically, it's definitely the rear of the layout that's causing the short circuit.
That's about as far as I have got trying to trace it. I still cant find what's causing it though.
Although still in place, I've pulled back all the point motor wires so they are just hanging loose from each screwed in point motor and I will now start disconnecting all the other wiring including all he droppers to see if that helps. :roll:
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:29 am

Here's the finished model of my Dapol C019 stores kit.
First some shots of the internal removable compartment. This is made from balsa wood, clear plastic for the counter front and the cakes and other edibles are from my box of assorted left over kit parts. Lampshades are white grommet's cut in half with the led's pushed through them and glued into position.
Pasty shop a.JPG

Pasty shop b.JPG

Pasty shop c.JPG


More to follow.....
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:31 am

And now the same model with the lighting on. :D

Internal, removal compartment on it's own.
Pasty shop d.JPG

The view of the front.
Pasty shop e.JPG

The view of the rear
Pasty shop f.JPG

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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:29 pm

Well that's another 4 hours on the layout and still I cannot find the short circuit and now the controller won't boot. I give up.
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Dublo
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby Dublo » Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:18 pm

Well done for your Pasty Shop, the interior looks most convincing.
I must say I feel sorry for your electrical problems and I hope you manage to resolve them soon.

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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:01 pm

Thanks Dublo.
As far as the layout goes there's nothing I can do without a controller so if I cannot get it fixed it'll be quite a while until I can afford another proper dcc controller, so I've spent the rest of the day putting rolling stock safely back in their boxes consigned for the layout to be a white elephant for the foreseeable future.
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby joshv8 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:20 am

I second Dublo's comments, the pastry shop and interior are fantastic!

I hope you sort your issues soon. Too many stories of layouts disappearing these days.
Cheers
Josh

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Bufferstop
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby Bufferstop » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:59 am

End2end wrote:Thanks Dublo.
As far as the layout goes there's nothing I can do without a controller

Not so my friend. Your meter carries its own supply and can diagnose a short circuit without any interference from the controller.! Put it across the ends of the bus, at the moment it should immediately beep buzz or whatever audible sound it makes. If it doesn't immediately indicate a short circuit try switching some points if it still doesn't detect a short, might this have been your controller announcing its imminent demise. Otherwise get a big magnifier and closely examine the track and wiring. Sweep your track.with a magnet, sounds daft but has anyone got a better offering.
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby Flashbang » Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:55 pm

This may sound daft, but you haven't connected a pair of droppers into the same Wago block? These of course have an internal connection across all the terminals, so a pair of droppers inserted into one Wago instead of two separate ones would create a full short circuit! :o
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:22 am

Bufferstop wrote:might this have been your controller announcing its imminent demise.

The controller has been sent back to the manufacturer. I'll report back the findings.
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:55 am

Flashbang wrote:This may sound daft, but you haven't connected a pair of droppers into the same Wago block?

He he no. :lol:
I use screw terminal connecting blocks specifically for the droppers to DCC bus connections only and Wago connectors specifically for connecting same colour wiring only. So they are distinct from each other in their purpose. I intentionally created it this way.
It's a carry over from my broadcast wiring work. Make things distinct and uniform which also makes them easier to distinguish from each other.
A God send when your dealing with 100's of cables of different types going off to many locations. :shock:
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Re: St. Blazey's - My first layout - Stage 3 Building

Postby End2end » Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:26 pm

Well that didn't work either.
The controller was returned to me the other day working properly after reflashing the software so I decided to start connecting some of the DCC bus again today to see if it was actually the controller even after all my tests.
The layout is still shorting on certain parts of the rear of the layout and now the controllers decided to fail yet again, probably due to the short circuit.
I'm at a total loss because even ripping it all up and staring again won't work with no controller to use.
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