Alex3410 - My Railway

Post pictures and information about your own personal model railway layout that is under construction. Keep members up-to-date with what you are doing and discuss problems that you are having.
Brooker
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: Sunny Hampshire

Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby Brooker » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:03 pm

So...
1 CDU to many momentary switches and then one momentary switch per DPDT switch on the to point motor - will work - I think.
1 CDU to 1 momentary switch to many DPDT is where the problem comes...

User avatar
End2end
Posts: 3907
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby End2end » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:12 pm

alex3410 wrote:I see, so they would be useful for connecting point motors up to the common return for the power say but not for individual connections to control switches?

Not really as for each solder point on the point motor you'd need 1 twin WAGO connector totalling 6 for each motor, thus the reason to use connector blocks still attached to each other in a row of 6.
For the WAGO connectors, the twins (1 in / 1 out) are good for extending wires, the triplets good for 1 wire in /2 wires out for bus to track dropper wires and beyond that there are 1 in / 3 out, 1 in / 4 out etc and they hold the cable like...... meard to a messrug?? :lol:
Brooker wrote:Are you using electrofrog points please? It looks from your picture that you are using the additional switch on the point motor to control the signalling (which is something I want to get to eventually), I am wondering if you are also using the same switch to control frog polarity?

No sadly my layout is too small for electrofrog points radii
Although yes I will be using them for signalling and also for control panel LED's replicating which way the points are thrown.
alex3410 wrote:@e2e - what software do you use for the diagrams?

The full colour diagram was made on photoshop.
Hope it helps
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
alex3410
Posts: 3385
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:39 pm
Location: Essex

Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby alex3410 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:58 pm

I am dotting the switches around the layout (close to the points) so each will have their own push buttons to save me running around switching and pushing :lol: plus its the only way it will work.


like this
Image


Thanks for the tip re the bus wire for the frog, i hadn't thought of that!

User avatar
TimberSurf
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:47 pm
Location: N.Wales
Contact:

Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby TimberSurf » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:28 pm

The problem with your design is that it has no positive feedback. i.e. you could flick the switch, point does not move, indicators would change, switch in alternate position, but if push button not pressed, you get a false indication.
Image
Lumsdonia <--- Hit link to go to my website for full story and wiring advice!

User avatar
alex3410
Posts: 3385
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:39 pm
Location: Essex

Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby alex3410 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:18 am

I figure I am going to get into the habit of pushing the button rather quickly :lol:

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 10851
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby Bufferstop » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:04 am

I think there's a problem in this, I'm going to have to draw it out myself (to convince my fuddled brain) then I'll come back.

Yes TimberSurf is right, not only that but when you turn it on you will have to operate every point motor to ensure that the switches and points are in sync. a switch attached to the motor or better still the tie-bar is the only cure. I don't think there is any other sure fire solution.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

User avatar
TimberSurf
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:47 pm
Location: N.Wales
Contact:

Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby TimberSurf » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:06 pm

There is a better option, well actually too many to mention, but this one, which is http://www.microminiatures.co.uk/acatal ... cator.html might be an easy one. Works with stud, biased switches and with push buttons (two for each point)
You can use pulse switches (momentary) and feed to both the point and the circuit board, the circuit board then remembers the point position to power the LED's.
They also do a remote control (that also gives indication) http://www.microminiatures.co.uk/acatal ... oller.html and lots of other interestin stuff http://www.microminiatures.co.uk/acatal ... lways.html
Image
Lumsdonia <--- Hit link to go to my website for full story and wiring advice!

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 10851
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby Bufferstop » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:07 pm

Bufferstop wrote: I don't think there is any other sure fire solution.

I'll take that back there's a much simpler way, as you are using DCC for traction power.
Use the built in switch to change the frog polarity, connect a wire to the Frog terminal on the point motor along with the wire to the frog. Run that wire back to the control panel and put a resistor (probably around 1K) conect two wires from the track bus, lets call them left and right rail. connect an LED to each of these two wires and the other end of the two LEDs to the resistor. When the point blades are thrown to the left, so the train will go to the right, the LED between Frog and Left is shorted out, as the frog is connected to the left rail by contact and through the switch. The LED between Frog and Right will light. When the point blades are thrown to the right it is the LED between Frog and Left that lights as the one between Frog and Right is shorted out.
The fact that the LEDs are shorted out makes no difference to the running as they are only shorted back to the rail/buswire from which they are drawing the power. No DPTP switches, no push buttons just sprung to centre [on]off[on] switches.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

User avatar
alex3410
Posts: 3385
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:39 pm
Location: Essex

Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby alex3410 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:11 pm

hmmm a little more thought needed maybe, i am not to fussed about the switches getting out of sync - so long as i don't move them by hand it should be ok - famous last words :lol:

but i do like Bufferstop's idea of the LED's, its a nice simple way of showing the direction - i will have to have a play around with it. Its fitting as i am planning on keeping the switches near the points so it keeps the wires to a minimum compared to the others.

I will also need to see what switches i have in my box! i was only at Maplins today :roll:

User avatar
End2end
Posts: 3907
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby End2end » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:56 pm

I'd steer clear of Maplins. Probably THE MOST expensive electrical componant retailer. :shock:
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
alex3410
Posts: 3385
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:39 pm
Location: Essex

Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby alex3410 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:34 pm

Yer I know, ridiculous prices but only place near by that does this sort of thing - I popped in for heat shrink I needed this weekend

They have helpfully 'refurbished' the Cambridge store - very flashy, they have now however put all of the components - switches, buttons etc - into draws, nice idea but means if one person is looking in one draw no one else can look at anything else :x

It's ok if you know what your looking for but for me it's nice to snoot around and see what's what.

User avatar
End2end
Posts: 3907
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: At the end....... and sometimes at the other end

Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby End2end » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:06 am

How about QVS?
Unit 28 Yardley Business Park,
Luckyn Lane, Basildon,
Essex, SS14 3GL
Thanks
End2end
"St Blazey's" - The progress and predicaments.
Welcome‎
Planning
Building
St. Blazey's Works & Depot thread

User avatar
alex3410
Posts: 3385
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:39 pm
Location: Essex

Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby alex3410 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:14 pm

Thanks for the suggestion, i will keep it in mind if i am out that way :)

we were passing Cambridge on Saturday so it was the convenience of Maplin, normally i order online as its easier and cheaper.


@Bufferstop - Thank you again for your idea, i have put together a prototype and it works really well very short video showing it in action. I like it more then the toggle switch as you can see the 'status' much easier this way, i just need to think of a good way of incorporating the surface mount point motors which do not switch the frogs automatically.

time to go shopping for LED's as i cant seem to find many of mine, i am sure they will turn up as soon as i order the new ones :roll:

User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 10851
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby Bufferstop » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:43 pm

To go with your surface mount point motor use a sub miniature microswitch on the opposite end of the tiebar, or if there's enough sticking out, the back of the motor actuator.

I haven't used them for frog switching but I did have a set of hidden dead end sidings, so I mounted rubber buffer blocks on the actuators, lined them up across the ends of the sidings and provided each with a diode to allow the trains to reverse, then I could drive the train in until it touched the end, and stopped, then back out again. As long as I didn't put too long a train in any siding I knew it was in far enough not to foul the adjacent line.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions

User avatar
alex3410
Posts: 3385
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:39 pm
Location: Essex

Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby alex3410 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:01 am

Thank you for the idea, I have ordered some and will have a play with them to see if I can get it working.

This is the most advanced I have gone with the electronics - I know it's still simple compared to most but it's all relative - lots to learn and figure out but will all be worth it in the end :)


Return to “Personal Layouts - Under Construction”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 10 guests