Alex3410 - My Railway

Post pictures and information about your own personal model railway layout that is under construction. Keep members up-to-date with what you are doing and discuss problems that you are having.
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alex3410
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Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby alex3410 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:07 pm

Minimal progress this weekend unfortunately, only thing i have managed to do is get sorted in my mind the track layout in the station area & solder another point ready for DCC use.

Now on Sunday roast dinner duty so have been oiked out of the shed :lol:

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alex3410
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Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby alex3410 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:35 am

No progress on the layout but i have got a new type of connector for the DCC bus and thought i would make a video on using both types as i had trouble finding a good video online explaining the differences.

its my first 'tutorial video' so go easy on me :lol: but feedback would be great. Aside from my voice sounds wired but thats probably just me :roll:

https://youtu.be/e0u9mSdsnwk

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alex3410
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Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby alex3410 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:07 am

Thank you, the bench is proving to be very handy, i am so pleased with it :D

it looks like it has something like a speaker on it, i will have a play around with it as it would be really useful! thanks for the tip

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End2end
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Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby End2end » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:10 am

Dave wrote:Does your multimeter have a 'buzz' facility, most do

Mine doesn't and it looks the same as yours, so inadvertantly you've taught me how to test for continuity with my tester Alex! :lol: :D
Tutorial video WIN!!
Before that I was using an LED....and hope...lots and lots of hope. :lol:
Unfortunatly it's not a speaker on it.
I use WAGO connectors on my Bus's but that's another story.
Thanks
End2end
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alex3410
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Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby alex3410 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:42 am

i only figured it out myself by touching / un touching the probes while rotating the selector through its entire range :oops: :lol:

i have even pencil marked it so i don't forget! its really handy to be able to check all sorts of things.

the WAGO connectors look interesting, i might pick some up if i see them about. It would mean having breaks in the bus wire but for point motors etc they look ideal.

i also like the idea of using different connectors for the bus / point motors as it will be easier to tell whats what under the base board

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End2end
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Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby End2end » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:34 pm

alex3410 wrote:the WAGO connectors look interesting, i might pick some up if i see them about. It would mean having breaks in the bus wire but for point motors etc they look ideal.

Not quite unless your only using 2 wires to switch the point and then you'd need 2 connectors.
WAGO connectors are different in the fact that they are a 1 in / so many out connector. So for example 1in / 1 out ~ 1 in 4 out etc.
This is why I used 3 way ones on both of my bus wires (1 connector for negative and 1 connector for positive at each track dropper location).
The bus line comes in and is split to 2 outs, i.e. the bus continuing wire and the track dropper wire.

I'm using SEEP PM1's and have used normal connecting blocks as I have soldered wire to all 6 wiring points on each of them.
Although this picture shows them as loose wires they are all connected to a connector block and all wires fromthe connecting block to actual point motor are equal length.
ST Blazeys Wiring Colour SchemeSM.JPG
ST Blazeys Wiring Colour SchemeSM.JPG (50.51 KiB) Viewed 1181 times

Thanks
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alex3410
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Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby alex3410 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:49 pm

I see, so they would be useful for connecting point motors up to the common return for the power say but not for individual connections to control switches?

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Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby Brooker » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:50 pm

Enjoying the updates alex, keep them coming.

Can I be excused for butting in and asking E2E a question please?
I'm using SEEP PM1's and have used normal connecting blocks as I have soldered wire to all 6 wiring points on each of them.
Although this picture shows them as loose wires they are all connected to a connector block and all wires fromthe connecting block to actual point motor are equal length.

ST Blazeys Wiring Colour SchemeSM.JPG


Are you using electrofrog points please? It looks from your picture that you are using the additional switch on the point motor to control the signalling (which is something I want to get to eventually), I am wondering if you are also using the same switch to control frog polarity?

I ask as I have gauge master std point motors without an integrated switch and am wondering how I could change frog polarity simply and easily.

Many thanks and apologies for the hijack!
Dave

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alex3410
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Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby alex3410 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:23 pm

Please do, check the instructions but if I remember rightly the F terminal on the point motor can be used to change the polarity without needing another switch - that's my plan

I have dpdt switches so I can use the 2nd circuit for lighting if I want to, either on signals or on the control panels.

I am going to control the burst of power to the point motor with an additional push button so that I can use the switches to indicate which way the points are set but at the same time avoid burning out the motors

My switches are the on - on type without centre off if that makes sense - not 100% on all the right terms :lol:

@e2e - what software do you use for the diagrams?



Edit:
very crude but this is what i am planning
Image

it leaves the other 'pole'? free for lighting etc - or with my surface mount point motors i think i will need to use in places, it can control the live frog

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Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby Brooker » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:21 pm

DPDT switches - now there's a thing, why didn't I think of that - so simple!!

I was off down the road of latching relays and so on.

BUT (and I am no expert here) I think going down that road for the frog, you'll need to consider the current draw across the 2nd pole when there is a loco on the points - you'd need to at least use the same weight wire as for your bus (assuming the distance from the points to the control panel is reasonable). Also would there be any issues with the differences in current between the switch pole for the point motor and the pole powering the frog.

Questions, questions, and possibly mis-information too.

We need FLASHBANG, or Timbersurf or some other electrical guru...

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Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby TimberSurf » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:38 pm

Hmmm...... methinks there could be a problem!
Alex, the drawing you show works perfectly for one point.
If more than 1 point share the CDU, then every time you hit the momentary push button, you are re-powering EVERY point on the layout!
If the point switch (per point) is not momentary, then you need 1 CDU per point, or 1 CDU capable of firing all points at the same time.
The other option would be a push button for every switch.
Image
Lumsdonia <--- Hit link to go to my website for full story and wiring advice!

Brooker
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Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby Brooker » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:03 pm

So...
1 CDU to many momentary switches and then one momentary switch per DPDT switch on the to point motor - will work - I think.
1 CDU to 1 momentary switch to many DPDT is where the problem comes...

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End2end
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Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby End2end » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:12 pm

alex3410 wrote:I see, so they would be useful for connecting point motors up to the common return for the power say but not for individual connections to control switches?

Not really as for each solder point on the point motor you'd need 1 twin WAGO connector totalling 6 for each motor, thus the reason to use connector blocks still attached to each other in a row of 6.
For the WAGO connectors, the twins (1 in / 1 out) are good for extending wires, the triplets good for 1 wire in /2 wires out for bus to track dropper wires and beyond that there are 1 in / 3 out, 1 in / 4 out etc and they hold the cable like...... meard to a messrug?? :lol:
Brooker wrote:Are you using electrofrog points please? It looks from your picture that you are using the additional switch on the point motor to control the signalling (which is something I want to get to eventually), I am wondering if you are also using the same switch to control frog polarity?

No sadly my layout is too small for electrofrog points radii
Although yes I will be using them for signalling and also for control panel LED's replicating which way the points are thrown.
alex3410 wrote:@e2e - what software do you use for the diagrams?

The full colour diagram was made on photoshop.
Hope it helps
Thanks
End2end
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alex3410
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Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby alex3410 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:58 pm

I am dotting the switches around the layout (close to the points) so each will have their own push buttons to save me running around switching and pushing :lol: plus its the only way it will work.


like this
Image


Thanks for the tip re the bus wire for the frog, i hadn't thought of that!

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Re: Alex3410 - My Railway

Postby TimberSurf » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:28 pm

The problem with your design is that it has no positive feedback. i.e. you could flick the switch, point does not move, indicators would change, switch in alternate position, but if push button not pressed, you get a false indication.
Image
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