Kingswood Junction (First Layout since 1984)

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steve70
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:19 pm

Kingswood Junction (First Layout since 1984)

Postby steve70 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:53 pm

Hi, I'm looking at the possibility of creating a layout in my loft.
As a kid I was heavily into trains and train sets were part of that interest but I never had anything more than a simple double loop on a sheet of chipboard.
It had no scenery as such, just bare track and a few bits of Hornby platform and a couple of buildings.
I use to dream of having a massive layout one day but as I got older I discovered beer and girls so the trains took a back seat so to speak. :lol:

Fast forward 30 years and I have my own house with a fairly reasonable sized loft with no plumbing, and not much in the way of junk, and most of that can be thrown out.
Best of all, the Mrs never ventures up there so I can basically do what I want with it. It's perfect. 8)
Now I'd always dismissed the idea of me putting anything up there due to the environment and thinking the track would rust (which my old stuff stored up there from years ago has done)
I gather nowadays this isn't a problem and having recently found this site and looking through peoples layouts I noticed quite a few have them in their lofts.

I've got a general design using the excellent SCARM software and reckon what I want to do will work in theory but I have some questions.

I'm under the impression Peco Code 75 track is the stuff to use but I'm still not sure on the difference (pros and cons) between this and Code 100 and the regular Hornby track.
It doesn't look like it comes with fishplates like the hornby stuff used to so presumable I'll have to order them separately.?

Would it be a good idea to cover my base boards with cork to reduce noise?

It looks like everything is digital these days. Does this mean that my old Hornby Class 58 and Lima Class 56 won't work with a digital system.?
Will Digital locos work with a conventional 12DC system?

Where's the best place to buy all that I need online?

Here's my plan so far.
It's 4.5m x 2.7m

Image

The idea is for the track to descend into a tunnel and under the terminus, reappearing on the other side.
Last edited by steve70 on Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:53 pm, edited 8 times in total.

Tricky Dicky
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 10:01 pm

Re: First Layout since 1984

Postby Tricky Dicky » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:18 pm

Hi Steve

I am not an OO modeller, but can answer some of your questions.

Using a loft, there are some issues mainly to do with vast temperature changes between Winter and Summer. In Winter you will find it extremely cold whilst in Summer the complete opposite in that it will get unbearably hot. Aside from your comfort the expansion and contraction of your track will cause loosening of fishplates over time, therefore you need to wire your track up so that it does not rely solely on fishplates to conduct the current. The climate in your loft will also play havoc with any card structures and even some plastic structures may suffer in the hot months. Of course much of this can be avoided with additional ventilation and insulation. A velux type window and/or a fan will help with ventilation. Insulation is something I would caution you to get some expert advice on as badly installed insulation can cause more problems than it solves even structural damage as it can trap moisture and the resulting condensation can promote wood rot. It is the condensation that has rusted your "old stuff".

On the positive side modern track is made of nickel silver which does not rust but will tarnish and require more cleaning in a loft situation. I will leave it to someone else to explain the difference between codes for tracks as I can only speak about n-gauge. What is similar in both gauges is the difference between set track and streamline. Set-track is the one that comes with fishplates attached in set sections and curves this means your design is influenced by the available sections. Streamline has set turnouts and other types of pointwork but straights and curves are made using flexi-track this means you have greater possibilities in the design of your layout and generally means you can create a layout that is truer to prototype. Because flexi-track is often cut to size to fit the layout that is why the fishplates are seperate, however they are not expensive.

Regards cork you will get a lot of varying opinion. Just laying it under the track will not reduce noise, as soon as you ballast the track the noise will transmit through that. Covering the entire baseboard may reduce noise but again some people say the cork de-generates over time. More modern materials like closed cell foams e.g Plastozote are getting some favourable opinion, however, most expert modellers just don't bother with either.

Digital works off 16V AC. Regards your old locos I cannot say how easy or hard it is to convert them to digital but you would be surprised how many can and a trawl of forums will usually come up with someone who has managed a conversion.

When it comes to online shopping there is no one place where you can for everything and you would be wise to try several suppliers. For run of the mill stuff like tracks, locos and carriages, box shifters like Hattons are hard to beat. For more specialist stuff like DCC equipment then specialist suppliers like Digitrains and DCC Supplies will hold a better range of that kind of equipment and more importantly are good source of advice when it comes to parting with dosh for this more expensive area of the hobby.

Your design looks good and maybe others more versed in prototypcal operation might be able to suggest improvements. One thing that I have learned recently is that like you I have track crossing over other track requiring slopes in the track. The expert advice I received is that slopes should no less than 1:50 or better. If you do not, you may find your locos will struggle and be only capable of pulling short trains.

Welcome to railway modelling
Richard

steve70
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:19 pm

Re: First Layout since 1984

Postby steve70 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:01 pm

Thanks Richard.
This may or may not come off. Not sure if its just a pipe dream at the moment but the more I look at other peoples creations the more I want to have a go.
I'm well aware of how hot and cold (especially recently) my loft can get and am actually in the building game so am aware of the do's and don't in that respect.
Hattons was not one I've come across in my short delve into this hobby so I'll certainly bookmark it and I'll take your advice on the gradients onboard as well.

Cheers

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Tiddles
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Re: First Layout since 1984

Postby Tiddles » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:08 pm

Personaly I would stay with the Peco code 100, it is compatable with Hornby and more robust for the lofe enviroment.

Also a lot of the old locos with deep wheel flanges will not run on code 75.
The Baltimore and Ohio Railroad, “Linking 13 Great States With The Nation.”

Ex-Pat
Posts: 1715
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:51 pm
Location: Dundalk Ireland

Re: First Layout since 1984

Postby Ex-Pat » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:11 pm

steve70 wrote: but I have some questions.

I'm under the impression Peco Code 75 track is the stuff to use but I'm still not sure on the difference (pros and cons) between this and Code 100 and the regular Hornby track.
It doesn't look like it comes with fishplates like the hornby stuff used to so presumable I'll have to order them separately.?

Where's the best place to buy all that I need online?



The rail height of Code 75 is less than that of Code 100 (as is its profile). It looks better and the only drawback would be if you have ancient (as opposed to old) rolling stock with coarse wheels that will ride too high and catch on the chairs of the sleepers. (You could test them first of course by buying a single length.)

Yes, you will need fishplates (both standard and insulating types if you intend to use Electrofrog points) - and it is easy to under-estimate the amount needed!

One of the cheapest places for track is:

http://www.dns-hosts.co.uk/~hmodels/sho ... c4de9859e5

or http://tinyurl.com/6nodt7m for short!

mjrennie
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:37 pm

Re: First Layout since 1984

Postby mjrennie » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:53 pm

steve70 wrote:Hi, I'm looking at the possibility of creating a layout in my loft.
As a kid I was heavily into trains and train sets were part of that interest but I never had anything more than a simple double loop on a sheet of chipboard.
It had no scenery as such, just bare track and a few bits of Hornby platform and a couple of buildings.
I use to dream of having a massive layout one day but as I got older I discovered beer and girls so the trains took a back seat so to speak. :lol:

Fast forward 30 years and I have my own house with a fairly reasonable sized loft with no plumbing, and not much in the way of junk, and most of that can be thrown out.
Best of all, the Mrs never ventures up there so I can basically do what I want with it. It's perfect. 8)
Now I'd always dismissed the idea of me putting anything up there due to the environment and thinking the track would rust (which my old stuff stored up there from years ago has done)
I gather nowadays this isn't a problem and having recently found this site and looking through peoples layouts I noticed quite a few have them in their lofts.

I've got a general design using the excellent SCARM software and reckon what I want to do will work in theory but I have some questions.

I'm under the impression Peco Code 75 track is the stuff to use but I'm still not sure on the difference (pros and cons) between this and Code 100 and the regular Hornby track.
It doesn't look like it comes with fishplates like the hornby stuff used to so presumable I'll have to order them separately.?

Would it be a good idea to cover my base boards with cork to reduce noise?

It looks like everything is digital these days. Does this mean that my old Hornby Class 58 and Lima Class 56 won't work with a digital system.?
Will Digital locos work with a conventional 12DC system?

Where's the best place to buy all that I need online?

Here's my plan so far.
It's 4.5m x 2.7m

Image

The idea is for the track to descend into a tunnel and under the terminus, reappearing on the other side.


My first post. You sound exactly like me! Been researching for a while and may be looking to get back into modelling, having had a large layout (though not great) that I sold in about 1980. Madness! I am struggling with SCARM, however.

mjrennie
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:37 pm

Re: First Layout since 1984

Postby mjrennie » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:53 pm

Damn, double post. Quality start!

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S_Jay
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Re: First Layout since 1984

Postby S_Jay » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:46 pm

Hey there good plan.

I have a couple of suggestions and general comments.

If you are going Digital do it from the start. Don't jump horses half way. DCC has less wires (More than two but less than with DC isolated sections)

Couple of points about the plan, keep looking at it and working on it. I never consider a plan finished until the tack is laid. Have you considered what is the longest train you want to run and will it fit into the station? Looks like 5 coaches and an engine. Is this long enough? What goods do you want to run? Even parcel trains have to be stored somewhere?

Your bottom station has only one platform, with a simple "S" curve to the left and you can fit another platform on the other side. And while on the bottom station It would be more realistic to have those sidings coming off the station bay not the mainline. That way you can shunt them while trains go round on the mainline.

You also have enough room to "loop" the mainline, that means trains can go round twice before returning to the station. Oh and how are they going to return to the station? Finally is there enough storage?

Your space is about the same space as my default design space (4.8m by 2.4m) why take a look at my thread http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=14866&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15 for the kind of things I'm taking about. I always design in code 75. If you can do it in 75 you can do it in 100.

:)
My Layout, My world, My rules, if that's ok?
My layout with no progress http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=14866
My other layout with progress http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=18394

steve70
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:19 pm

Re: First Layout since 1984

Postby steve70 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:10 pm

Thanks for the advice.
Regarding DCC.
I have no idea how it works as of yet and was thinking about buying a second hand digital Hornby set just to get an idea and compare it with the conventional DC system.
The plan is just a rough idea of what I want. I've always wanted to have a big terminus but not be limited to just backwards and forwards operation so the main loop takes care of that and I can bring them back when I want.
As far as returning trains to the station goes, I plan to add a set of points on the right hand section to switch tracks then bring another engine out of the yard there to hook up to it if that makes sense.
The terminus is going to be long enough for 5 coaches and 2 engines. If I find when actually building that I can actually have more coaches then i 'll extend the length of the platforms. As you say it is not final until I start laying track :-)
The bottom station is my branch line and the mainline will be hidden from view on most of this side. That's another thing I wanted to replicate and it may not be a final position.

When you say 'loop the line' do you mean in such a way that trains will come back to the terminus without having to switch tracks and add another loco? If so then I'd like to do that but would want it out of sight and not sure if I actually have the room to do it.
I've got plenty of scope for sidings, just not sure where I'm going to put them yet and not sure what goods trains I want to run. Passenger services are more my thing.
I'll add that this will be a layout based in the 1970/80's era. There will be none of those old steam engine things . ;-)

steve70
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:19 pm

Re: First Layout since 1984

Postby steve70 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:39 pm

OK I know it's been nearly 2 years but watch this space (literally) :)
Image
Last edited by steve70 on Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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alex3410
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Location: Essex

Re: First Layout since 1984

Postby alex3410 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:33 pm

looking forward to seeing your design come to life!

The only thing i found with my layout in the loft is my other half now takes allot more interest on whats going on in the loft which means i get told of more for making a mess :( - stupid thing was until i started my layout i don't think she had even been in the loft!

you can see my layout now on version 3! here

steve70
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:19 pm

Re: First Layout since 1984

Postby steve70 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:35 pm

Well It don't look much but I've made a start :)

Image

Image
Last edited by steve70 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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manna
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Re: First Layout since 1984

Postby manna » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:57 pm

G'Day Gents

You may think it's not much of a start, but you HAVE started, it's after the first board is up, that the blood starts to take over, now you will want to finish it. Good luck. :D

manna
EDGWARE GN. Steam in the Suburbs

steve70
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:19 pm

Re: First Layout since 1984

Postby steve70 » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:36 pm

Ha Ha. This is what I'm thinking.
Now I'm up there and the Mrs is aware, it's full steam ahead..:)
Well it will be in a couple of weeks when I've recuperated from the knee surgery I had yesterday :(

steve70
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:19 pm

Re: First Layout since 1984

Postby steve70 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:57 pm

I've just had a thought.
This layout will incorporate a branch line and it is that branch line from where I will start this layout.
I've just had the idea of making said branch line 3rd rail. That would give me the option of EMU and DMU but how easy is this to accomplish?
Should I do it from the off or is it an easy enough retrofit?

Any tips/recommendations would be appreciated.


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