St. Mary Hoo - a clapped out SR branch terminus in P4

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Pete
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Re: St. Mary Hoo - a clapped out SR branch terminus in P4

Postby Pete » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:55 am

Hi Rustyrail/Simon

This talk on P4 is very interesting, could you recommend a good introduction to the subject?

When you took the decision to switch how long did it take you to get to get up and running (from the point of view of gaining the knowledge and skills)?
Switching to finescale seems to be a natural progression once you wander of the beaten track, I've recently dipped a toe in 2mm world, but I'm finding it very hard to get to grips with it, and have nothing to show as yet.



Lovely modelling as ever.


Pete
It's the nature of evolution
The dinosaurs went to Hell

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Rustyrail
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Re: St. Mary Hoo - a clapped out SR branch terminus in P4

Postby Rustyrail » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:17 pm

Colin Parks wrote:Hi Simon,

I am contemplating a change to P4 at some point. At least for some of the stock would be converted, cost being an issue as much as anything. The idea of sprung axles and realistic suspension is very appealing, and probably also prudent with P4 flanges. The hardest thing to convert appears to be the humble four-wheeled wagon.

It has been mentioned to me that P4 point-work using flat-bottom rail requires extra filing of the rail foot at crossings and check rail areas to get the rail heads close enough together. How did you get on with your one point built using such rail?

All the best,

Colin


Hello Colin,

You're right about the extra filing needed for the switch blades for flat bottom points. I'm no expert on this subject (Jim SW is the person to talk to about flat bottom BR points) but from what I've seen of the prototype, the tips of the switch blades have to be very fine indeed to maintain gauge, with no indent cut out in the stock rail for the switches to sit in. I'm sure there are flat bottom points that do have indents in the stock rail, however, making it a bit easier. For check rails it is the base of the rail that needs lots of filing to get the correct gaps. My own point (the industrial one) uses code 75 flat bottom rail as opposed to the heavier code 82 to represent BR track; I could have filed my switch blades some more but they work fine.

All the best
Simon

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Rustyrail
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Re: St. Mary Hoo - a clapped out SR branch terminus in P4

Postby Rustyrail » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:18 pm

Lysander wrote:A delight, as usual.

Tony


Many thanks Tony for your kind words!

Cheers
Simon

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Rustyrail
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Re: St. Mary Hoo - a clapped out SR branch terminus in P4

Postby Rustyrail » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:30 pm

Pete wrote:Hi Rustyrail/Simon

This talk on P4 is very interesting, could you recommend a good introduction to the subject?

When you took the decision to switch how long did it take you to get to get up and running (from the point of view of gaining the knowledge and skills)?
Switching to finescale seems to be a natural progression once you wander of the beaten track, I've recently dipped a toe in 2mm world, but I'm finding it very hard to get to grips with it, and have nothing to show as yet.



Lovely modelling as ever.


Pete


Hello Pete,

Many thanks for your post. If you go to the Scalefour website and click on "Resources" on the home page, there's a very helpful PDF file you can download called "Moving to P4".

http://www.scalefour.org/

St. Mary Hoo is my first P4 layout; it took around a year, on and off, to get something running in a reasonably realistic setting. The "hardest" and longest bit of the process is of course the track building followed by adding the working third rail. It could have been much faster but I'm a very slow worker, and others have put together small P4 layouts in a few months using point kits and flexi track from Exactoscale and C and L (both now under one roof). It all depends how complicated you want your layout to be. It is a very satisfying process building in P4 and I'd really recommend this over 2mm finescale for a beginner. Once you start in P4 you won't look back! EM is another possibility and is more forgiving than P4 but without the finesse of scale point work (check rail gaps and crossing dimensions). You don't even need to have compensated stock (a bit of a myth) as long as your track is nice and level. Joining the Scalefour Society is another good way of getting into the whole P4 arena. The forum there is available to view for non members and has loads of useful info with a guest section. I am a lapsed member (due to cash) but I'll probably join again one of these days!

Cheers
Simon

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Rustyrail
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Re: St. Mary Hoo - a clapped out SR branch terminus in P4

Postby Rustyrail » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:47 pm

This is the whole layout plan, including phase 3 (for the CEGB power station and the BR line to Allhallows-on-Sea). The lower part of the plan is just a very rough track plan with no structures included yet. Most of this will be modified further but it gives you a good idea of the way the whole of the SMH project will look. The running length will be more than double what it is now. I want the baseboards to flow and have a rounded look, and I think the main viewing side will be on the right, not the left as it is now. The width of the baseboards adjacent to the level crossing will be wider than shown here to include more of the road area.

Image

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THE CHIEF
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Re: St. Mary Hoo - a clapped out SR branch terminus in P4

Postby THE CHIEF » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:27 pm

Top stuff. Looks an interesting plan. One feature of the current section I really like is the alcove with the buffers in it. Is that baced on a prototype or have you just made that up? Its a great little feature and very believable.

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Rustyrail
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Re: St. Mary Hoo - a clapped out SR branch terminus in P4

Postby Rustyrail » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:40 pm

THE CHIEF wrote:Top stuff. Looks an interesting plan. One feature of the current section I really like is the alcove with the buffers in it. Is that baced on a prototype or have you just made that up? Its a great little feature and very believable.


Many thanks Mike. It is based on one I saw at Clapham Junction, although that example was much bigger and may have changed. I think such features occurred when the railway was there first and a new structure was built around it without the need to pull up the track. Not common though.

All the best
Simon

Pete
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Re: St. Mary Hoo - a clapped out SR branch terminus in P4

Postby Pete » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:10 pm

Hello Pete,

Many thanks for your post. If you go to the Scalefour website and click on "R....etc



Simon

Many thanks for your full reply, I'll take a look at the suggested links.

I guess I'm toe dipping in 2mm as it'll allow me a bit more freedom as to what I model, it means I'm not so restricted to the RTR Big Four period, I also like the idea of a challenge, but I must confess at this precise moment it's definitely 1-0 to 2mm :(

Pete
It's the nature of evolution
The dinosaurs went to Hell

gmantree
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Re: St. Mary Hoo - a clapped out SR branch terminus in P4

Postby gmantree » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:22 pm

Hi Simon,

I like the plan you have posted, looks spot on! I particularly like the different size boards which make the layout so much more interesting with varying depths and shapes.

cheers

Graham.

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Rustyrail
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Re: St. Mary Hoo - a clapped out SR branch terminus in P4

Postby Rustyrail » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:58 pm

Many thanks Pete and Graham for your comments. I'm glad you like the plan Graham; I think when the layout is viewed at eye level (once the two extensions have been added) it will give the viewer a true feeling of being in this lonely part of Kent.

Cheers
Simon

Colin Parks
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Re: St. Mary Hoo - a clapped out SR branch terminus in P4

Postby Colin Parks » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:59 pm

Hi Simon,

That looks like a very interesting plan. There would be a great deal of operational interest with locos being able to trundle about in three directions. The asymmetrical shape is rather appealing, although I would add a word of caution that odd shaped boards can be difficult to carry about!

Have you though about extending the station platform to accommodate 4-car EMUs ? I seem to remember that you had considered it at some point.

All the best,

Colin

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Rustyrail
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Re: St. Mary Hoo - a clapped out SR branch terminus in P4

Postby Rustyrail » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:35 am

Colin Parks wrote:Hi Simon,

That looks like a very interesting plan. There would be a great deal of operational interest with locos being able to trundle about in three directions. The asymmetrical shape is rather appealing, although I would add a word of caution that odd shaped boards can be difficult to carry about!

Have you though about extending the station platform to accommodate 4-car EMUs ? I seem to remember that you had considered it at some point.

All the best,

Colin


Many thanks Colin for your comments. Yes you're absolutely right about odd shaped boards! Storage is obviously harder too, plus exhibition organisers are choosy about layout shapes and lengths as you found out with your Newhaven Harbour layout. The boards will be very light weight though. Not sure about extending the platform, which would need the level crossing removing and perhaps being situated elsewhere. It is tempting to accomodate a four coach EMU though and I certainly haven't ruled it out!

All the best
Simon

Colin Parks
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Re: St. Mary Hoo - a clapped out SR branch terminus in P4

Postby Colin Parks » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:57 pm

Hi Simon,

Re. light weight boards, I had a chat with the builder of the P4 layout Allt y Graban at the Carmarthen show (he was there, his layout sadly wasn't!). He said his base boards are made of structural foam with plywood ends and acrylic sheet for the track bed. It sounded like a very interesting concept and extremely light. I think the stuff comes in 1200mm x 500mm sheets. It could be worth considering if you are going in for odd shaped boards. I have no end of trouble moving that one curved section of NHH about.

All the best,

Colin

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Rustyrail
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Re: St. Mary Hoo - a clapped out SR branch terminus in P4

Postby Rustyrail » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:10 pm

Cheers Colin. Yes that does sound interesting but I wonder how expensive the method is compared to more traditional materials?

All the best
Simon

Nestor
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Re: St. Mary Hoo - a clapped out SR branch terminus in P4

Postby Nestor » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:43 am

Hi Simon

Good to see this is still going...now to catch up with everything

Nestor


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